If these were vídeos of a pilot from AA, DAL, UCAL talking a nap or some comments about a pilot from any of these companies bloking the sun (and most pilots do) you would be raising hell about how unprofessional this is....! But because they're Chinese (insert ANY Asian carrier here really) it's perfectly fine to post videos on YouTube for the world to see.....!

It is wrong.....! Regardless of where they are from.

 

I am a little more lenient with this for multiple reasons.

First and foremost is that the Chinese are very much against any outside influence. Any attempts by foreign pilots to point out safety issues or potential violations are dismissed as irrelevant. You are a foreigner and thus do not count. You are not considered a valuable resource and they certainly do not really care about your experience or expertise. All the Chinese carriers care about is there is a warm body in the left seat. (At my company a foreign captain was called in to discuss why he did not follow a first officers instructions even though those instructions were incorrect and a violation of operational procedure. In the company's opinion, disregarding the first officer, even if he is blatantly wrong, is considered bad CRM. Your job, in their mind, is to blindly follow the first officers instructions in order to maintain a harmonious flight deck environment. Clear evidence IMHO they do not care about your experience and expertise). In most western and probably most Asian carriers, if a crew member, regardless of background or nationality, points out recurring problems then those problems are taken seriously. Not so with Chinese carriers. Given the recent uptick in extreme nationalism in China this problem is getting worse, not better. When clear issues are repeatedly ignored, a person is more likely to take extreme measures to get them noticed. If a clear process were in place to address the safety issues, through the company, aviation authority, or pilots union, I would take more issue with posting the videos on Youtube. But the Chinese have made it very clear they do not care about foreigners raising issues of safety.

Second - Youtube is officially banned in China. The consequences of these videos being placed on Youtube are different than they would be in everywhere else in the world. If they were placed on Baidu then it would be a different story.

 

Well, lets see:

1. If a chinese pilot showed up at your airline in the west, and told you what you were doing was all wrong, how do you think your airline would react?

2. All airlines want "warm bodies" filling the pilot seats. We are just numbers to them, no matter where you work.

3. Chinese censorship, or western political correctness police? Is it really that different?

I believe you are having a wet dream of some mythical perfect western pilot job at a major airline. It is different in Asia. Some ways worse, some ways better.

I work at a mythical perfect airline job. I can't wait to go back to Asia and deal with all the "issues". For me, it was less hassle, and the job satisfaction was far better.

And if you are in China, the paycheck is much higher.

 

At every airline I have ever worked for if a crew member brought up a safety issue, it was investigated and followed up with. Nationality of the pilot did not matter. That is absolutely not the case at the airline I fly for in China. There are some common safety issues and SOPs in China that violate well developed global safety standards. When confronted with these facts by anyone who is not Chinese, they are ignored. And I am not just speaking about pilots bringing up concerns either. My present airline routinely dismisses recommendations from Airbus representatives as well. Tell me where else representatives from a manufacturer would be ignored when informing an airline that a certain practice is damaging an aircraft system, or another practice creates a fire hazard? That has happened at my present company.

As for me "having a wet dream of some mythical perfect western pilot job at a major airline", nothing could be further from the truth. I have spent 20 years of my life flying for western airlines, I am well aware there is no such thing. But for me personally I would rather not deal with blatant disregard for globally recognized safety practices, lethal pollution, constant deafening noise, bed bug infested hotels, and questionable food safety. I am ready to get out. Thankfully just today I completed a major step towards the exit.

 

We have vigorous debate. This is good.

I'd like to unpack this a bit, there's a lot in here.They day the Chinese can say they invented the aeroplane, invented the jet engine, discovered why square windows on a pressurized vessel don't work, developed CRM and flight deck design... well sir, that day let them come to XYZ airline and lay down the law. Until then, stuffing napkins in vents meant to clear the deck of smoke in an emergent situation WILL NOT FLY.
Thank you for clarifying this for us RE: China. Yet, just because the airline want's a seat filler, that justifies... huh?!? What in the name of grace is being said here? I think every aviator I know would take the insinuation as a pretty big insult...
This is an exceptionally dangerous statement, and speaks volumes about you Probe. Can you tell me the websites that are blocked in, say, the UK? France? The US? There is this thing called the "Great Chinese Firewall" and it is real. YES, it is very, VERY different. Come on now.
Tiptoeing around said paycheck to justify such and such is a really bad way to proceed if you are trying to convince people in a debate about what is proper and what is not of a professional arena like the flight deck of a transport category jet that may or may not be carrying your mother in the cabin.

 

I'd like to respectfully suggest that you are missing some really important details Dom. While I agree with your statement that posting videos is an exceptionally controversial move, some problems never get solved without meandering into some kind of controversy. (BTW, this individual approached us for help because he preferred to join a group in protest rather than go it himself.)

Imagine for a minute with me here: what would drive someone to take said videos, edit them and post them? What would drive others to write 400(+) pages with company memos, photographic examples and commentary? He is not alone.

So, look at the other side of this for just a mili-second. Flying in Japan is even again very different from Chinese flight decks. The exceptionally detailed approach to flying exhibited by the Japanese is admirable in many ways, annoying in others; but it is a model of airmanship, white flying gloves be damned. And throwing oneself on the sword because of a mistake... I'd like to see a Chinese pilot do that.

No, please do not conflate flying in Japan with flying in China. Worlds apart. Problems deserve criticism and debate which has been sparked here. We appreciate your contribution and do not necessarily disagree with the spirit of some of the points you make.

 

I'd like to add a reference to this from F.U.D. under appendix J, page xix. Where there's fire, there was smoke, and this feature of flying in China was commented on long before these videos were posted:


Safety Tips
__________________________________________________
[ 201 4 ] 2 No.
On the strict implementation of the rest system of safety tips

All pilots: Recently a group of employees out vicious accident occurred after the evening meal, resulting in a greater impact. In view of this, the company recently disciplined implementation schedule requirements will conduct surprise checks, special alerts pilots strictly comply with all the requirements of rest system, especially the need clear the following points:

First, the flight crew members to perform tasks before 8 shall not engage in within hours of entertainment, games, parties and other events affecting the normal rest, or severe fatigue state posts to work.

Second, the implementation of flight before the 24- hour non-beverage alcohol pilots and other personnel on duty or drink containing alcohol, and alcohol tests must consciously check the bases with aviation medicine and the Bureau implementation. Alcohol tests do not match, or intentionally obstruct escape alcohol test alcohol testing personnel, depending on the alcohol test will be exceeded, the company will be processed in accordance with the relevant provisions of the alcohol during duty.

Third, in addition to flight mission causes of the day, the pilot no later than 22:30 returns resting place.

In addition, near the end, Tips-duty personal safety of the crew, to comply with traffic rules, not drunk driving, not illegal, while strengthening self-discipline, to prevent participation in sensitive activities as little as possible to participate in group sex parties, to safeguard their lives and property safety.

Hereby Tips

 

Is this about solving problems or simply a double standard when we deal with foreign pilots in general?

FedEx for example...., they had all sorts of problems with CRM and fatigue some years back.., a terrible company culture with regards to operations. Somebody would have posted many videos on YouTube of things that went on in those cockpits that led to the loss of many hulls (problems that as I understand are now under control) and you would have condemned that, even if the intention of the OP was one of solving the problem...!

At the end of the day, pointing a finger at a coalleague and disrespecting him or her by filming them without their consent and posting it on YouTube is wrong and unethical...., like I said on another post, professionalism shouldn't have geographical borders.

 

If you don't like working in China, you don't have to do it. Their culture is different.

If the money was the same as in other countries, I would not have gone, or stayed to finish my contract. I also choose to not go to the sandbox, as it is also not for me.

At the end of the day, I am for sale. My former job in China is currently tied for the highest paid job in the contract world.

If you don't like it, don't do it. Better yet, go post this stuff on PPRUNE. There, you will find many kindred spirits.

 

Some really good points, Dom. But I'd like to suggest first that it depends on the problem we are trying to solve; what paradigm are we working with?

If the problem is, as you imply with the good Fedex example, 'improving something in the way the Chinese do whatever', it's naive for any of us to think that a pebble in the ocean will make any difference. It will not. There is no way that anything that gets posted on some backwater forum somewhere on the internet (including youtube) is going to do anything to change the lumbering beast that is Chinese [insert category]. In fact, front page photos of tanks running roughshod over students in Tienanmen didn't change anything back in the 90's. So, this point has been made before, recently, and it's good to keep on making it.

But, I reckon if we define the problem as 'reaching out to pilots who are on the verge of making a major career decision' and providing the same with INFORMATION [capital I] to work with and make that choice, then your answer becomes yes. We are fighting that fight and we believe it is a worthy cause with no holds barred and no voice censored. Making the move to go work in China as a pilot is exceedingly risky and not a long-term solution, unlike Fedex. I personally believe this point needs to be emphasized, underscored and highlighted in the face of wild advertisements promising grandeur and recruiters who want to blow sunshine up everyone's nether regions.

We keep making the point that we are rendering information available. We keep making the point that pilots need to do their homework before they sign on the dotted line. We keep making the point that YOU ARE PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for your actions abroad, especially in a punitive culture like China. Be aware, be forewarned and take advantage of what is being made available. The theatre of operations is no song and dance, proof and example provided.

YES, you are 100% correct that 'professionalism shouldn't have geographical borders.' The unfortunate reality to this declaration is that it is also naive; people do not understand the... shall we call them 'intricacies' of Chinese aviation. We (the F.U.D. brotherhood if you will) have been cataloging those 'intricacies' and making the list available to others who have dollar signs razzle-dazzle-zazzling their eyes so that they might come back to terra firma and take a long, hard look. To take a page from Capt. Probe's playbook, if person XYZ doesn't like what we are doing in our narrative here, that person doesn't have to read this thread or click such-and-whatnot provided link. We are still all adults.

If we wanted kindred spirits Cap'n, we re-pats would meet up at the pub every second Friday, shoot billiards over a pint and reminisce.

Instead, what we are trying to do, as stated over and over and over in this thread going back 19 pages and 40,000(+) views is that we are looking to inform the uninformed with real-world intel, real-time. Probe, you LOVE China. Great. It's good to hear the opinions of someone who is lockstep with the Chinese with such vigor and conviction that nothing else matters. This is important to hear. It's important for the 40,000(+) views to keep reading how, for some pilots, nothing matters except the bottom line: the money. Risk, health, displacement and culture shock, deterioration of skill/judgement etc. do not matter to you. That is your journey and it's actually fascinating to hear about on some level. But, for others these things do matter. Some may not have been posed the question and so may not realize those things matter as much as they do. A lot of that stuff we take for granted in the West.

Thanks for your input though. It is important to get views from all sides, and (aside from ad hominem) all views should be considered.

Fly safe everyone and if it's your birthday, happy birthday!
C.S.