hanGUK

Working at Korean Air you see all kinds of crazy stuff that wouldn't and couldn't happen at western carriers. Last year while looking through the logbook prior to a flight I noticed something unbelievable...

View image: Full Size Render 2

Look at Item 'C' in the write ups

Tail number associated was HL7404

I'm tired of their cover ups, these things happen ALL the time and the company never discusses or discloses it. CRM is taught based on other companies' screw ups and never our own. Ground school is taught to foreigners in Korean language and test answers are disseminated by instructors. This place is an embarrassment to the aviation profession and they should not be allowed to fly outside of their sorry little postage stamp of a country. If the ICAO ever needed to step in and do something, it needs to be over the fatally dangerous aviation culture in South Korea and specifically at Korean Airlines.

The Dominican

Sorry to have to be the one to tell you this...., but there have been dozens of stalls at US carriers in the last decade alone

hanGUK

But none in a 747-400 with passengers...

The regionals in the US are a whole other animal and have problems of their own but the follow 'best practices' to work with the FAA to fix it. When you have a bunch of young guys who have been flying jets for less than 3-4 years you're going to have mistakes. However, when you have a flight deck with experienced pilots, some of which have been on type for 25 years and they still make basic mistakes you have a systemic problem.

Also, Boeings have VNAV and many more speed protections that regional jets lack. To stall a 744 is a willful act of idiocy and ignorance.

bedrock

Where is KAL doing it's ab-initio commercial training nowadays? Is it still being done in the US? If so, there is a problem there.

Also, post this on flyer talk and start making pax aware. The asian airlines are letting a lot of unsafe practices fly. Taiwan is another issue.

hanGUK

The Chairman at KAL quit hiring the civilian trained guys (Jeju academy) a few years ago, they are almost entirely hiring ex-airforce which is a huge mistake IMHO. These guys speak little to no english, have no CRM experience, and do not fly in IMC while in the air force.

To obtain their ICAO english qualification they pay an examiner in Canada upwards of $2000 and they are issued a level 6 which they convert in Korea. They would never be able to obtain a level 4 in any other country but the Canadian examiners are corrupt.

contrail44

I recently instructed at a flight school that had a contract with Korean. Their are multiple places in the U.S. that Korean is sending there guys. The training those guys are receiving is a joke. They stick them in a king air for 10 hours and say they are ready to fly a 73.

The Dominican

Sorry but you are wrong...., there has been several cases over the last decade of stalls at the majors in the US..., not the regionals.

JohnBurke

I don't know about passengers, but I'm aware of several cases of 747-400's being stalled by US carriers, as well as 747-200's.

brianb

Weak statements at best. Full stall, approach to stall, what flight regime did it occur in? Aircraft damage, scared passengers? Name the last US carrier to stall a large jet due to Pilot stupidity with the exception of Colgan Air, which was a turbo prop, and severe weather. I'm just talking dumb dumbs here.

JohnBurke

I won't name the carrier or the individuals, as I gave them representation during their hearings. I will state that I'm personally familiar with several occurrences involving full aerodynamic stalls of 747-400 and -200 aircraft, that have occurred with US carriers.

The specifics of each case have been addressed and settled, and I am unable to discuss the details.

"Dumb-dumb" was never a term that came up in the investigations, review boards, or subsequent actions taken. Perhaps it's too technical for some of us.