NetJets new Contract
11-20-2018, 05:53 PM
#201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Just a pilot
Posts: 745
Let me ask the people all excited about this....If you have a 1.5 hour show/go at 0800 with a 30 minute ferry, then sit 9 hours at the FBO and do a :30 minute revenue leg, your duty time is 12:00 for one hour of flight. How much of this wonder money do you get? NOT A DIME. The last flight exempts everything and you don't even get regular OT.
11-20-2018, 06:40 PM
#202
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,228
Originally Posted by OtherGuy
Again, why your even in this discussion has not been answered, 99% of your post since joining last month have been on threads where you have ZERO stake. Again, why are you hanging around? What is your end goal? How does what another company do affect you? And yes, I understand the internet and understand a lot of people have nothing else going on their lives and spend hours just being trolls. Take up painting or knitting. 65 post since last month. 49 for me since April of 2014. Think about that. But let's continue.
You stated you were pay protected if you fatigued. I stated I was as well. My base pay does NOT change if I fatigue. I do NOT lose that money because I fatigue...so..again, I am PROTECTED from pay loss due to fatiguing. Would you agree?
Now, based on the new TA, if I were to fatigue, there is a potential to lose ADDITIONAL PAY, but once again, not base pay. Is that clear for you? Do I need crayons?
In other words, if I choose to do the right thing, which I would, the potential to make more money is gone but my integrity is intact. Also, having spent time in the 121 world, there is LESS legitimate motivation to fatigue there than here. If I fatigued in the 121 world, the $hit hit the N1. I could strand 2 people or 200.
You stated you were pay protected if you fatigued. I stated I was as well. My base pay does NOT change if I fatigue. I do NOT lose that money because I fatigue...so..again, I am PROTECTED from pay loss due to fatiguing. Would you agree?
Now, based on the new TA, if I were to fatigue, there is a potential to lose ADDITIONAL PAY, but once again, not base pay. Is that clear for you? Do I need crayons?
In other words, if I choose to do the right thing, which I would, the potential to make more money is gone but my integrity is intact. Also, having spent time in the 121 world, there is LESS legitimate motivation to fatigue there than here. If I fatigued in the 121 world, the $hit hit the N1. I could strand 2 people or 200.
11-20-2018, 06:50 PM
#203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Gear *****
Posts: 266
Is Mark selling this? If they are selling this not only should you vote NO you should run.
24 hours before you walked on Wall Street you were sold out. 2015 had so much that never made the final TA. Sadly very few knew what you should have got. From travel, DH pay, OT pay for no non stop home, hotel and training iron clad language, middle seat pay, shorter duty days, a true DC retirement. Night pay (now on the table 3 years later) you never knew because your union with held all this.
So why now. How did Adam Johnson find $ 400 million 3 years later. Why and how. Ask the real questions. The company came back to the table 3 times. They want this way too bad. This is a pig just like 2015. You are being sold once again to the highest bidder. Why should you have to fly more to earn $$. Why a signing bonus? (Obvious right?) Why no DC like Delta or United? What about safety? Why do I have to fly more to make more money? Will I ground a jet because I am scheduled to fly TEB VNY. That's big bucks now right? Why does seniority mean nothing except for vacation? Will the A team now get all the trips? What stop gap is in place? Who and why?
It smells top to bottom.
24 hours before you walked on Wall Street you were sold out. 2015 had so much that never made the final TA. Sadly very few knew what you should have got. From travel, DH pay, OT pay for no non stop home, hotel and training iron clad language, middle seat pay, shorter duty days, a true DC retirement. Night pay (now on the table 3 years later) you never knew because your union with held all this.
So why now. How did Adam Johnson find $ 400 million 3 years later. Why and how. Ask the real questions. The company came back to the table 3 times. They want this way too bad. This is a pig just like 2015. You are being sold once again to the highest bidder. Why should you have to fly more to earn $$. Why a signing bonus? (Obvious right?) Why no DC like Delta or United? What about safety? Why do I have to fly more to make more money? Will I ground a jet because I am scheduled to fly TEB VNY. That's big bucks now right? Why does seniority mean nothing except for vacation? Will the A team now get all the trips? What stop gap is in place? Who and why?
It smells top to bottom.
11-20-2018, 07:07 PM
#204
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 106
***.....it will NOT impact my base pay! Why is that so hard to understand. I can fatigue everyday and guess what...paycheck comes and the number did not change from the last one where I flew 30 hours in a week. NOW..with the new TA, it WOULD impact pay ABOVE AND BEYOND the 12.1 hours. I do NOT LOSE pay...I just won't gain additional pay. I am "pay protected" for fatigue.
And yes, as I said before, this incentivizes flying beyond what someone should. Having flown 121, the pressure to move metal or strand 200 people was greater.
And yes, as I said before, this incentivizes flying beyond what someone should. Having flown 121, the pressure to move metal or strand 200 people was greater.
Originally Posted by symbian simian
Left 91K 6 years ago, now getting paid by the hour after 15 years of salary. It does sound that calling fatigued could negatively impact your W2. Talking about crayons does not give you bonus points. I have fatigued in ACMI. 135, 91K, 121 and several JAA numbers I can't remember, if there is ANY pay impact due to calling in fatigued it WILL impact safety.
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 11-21-2018 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Semi-blasphemous
11-20-2018, 08:05 PM
#205
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by OtherGuy
***......it will NOT impact my base pay! Why is that so hard to understand. I can fatigue everyday and guess what...paycheck comes and the number did not change from the last one where I flew 30 hours in a week. NOW..with the new TA, it WOULD impact pay ABOVE AND BEYOND the 12.1 hours. I do NOT LOSE pay...I just won't gain additional pay. I am "pay protected" for fatigue.
And yes, as I said before, this incentivizes flying beyond what someone should. Having flown 121, the pressure to move metal or strand 200 people was greater.
And yes, as I said before, this incentivizes flying beyond what someone should. Having flown 121, the pressure to move metal or strand 200 people was greater.
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 11-21-2018 at 04:46 PM.
11-20-2018, 08:54 PM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 313
They called it a 20% raise and it sounds plausible, I skipped a major to avoid driving 3 hours each way to a DC airport, I can fly out of one 10 minutes down the road with a confirmed ticket and now work for $100K for 6 months out of the year, I’ll take it! Golf course here I come!
11-20-2018, 09:30 PM
#207
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 106
A discussion you should not be part of..but to your point, people keep saying I will lose money if I fatigue. You do not have a grasp of the English language or have a comprehension problem, either way I do not care. I am not sure why you care since we are the "laughing stock" of the aviation world. I am sure your time here was not supporting this group to move forward.
I will ask you make sure I get to my sad little jet on time. Its been an issue lately. Until then....we will do us...you do you. Wow...what a
I will ask you make sure I get to my sad little jet on time. Its been an issue lately. Until then....we will do us...you do you. Wow...what a
Originally Posted by OhSnapAF
Not one single person has said it will impact your base pay. Get on the same page as everyone else so a legit discussion can take place, please...
Last edited by tomgoodman; 11-21-2018 at 05:03 AM. Reason: Removed epithets
11-21-2018, 06:38 AM
#209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,063
Originally Posted by OhSnapAF
I don’t know of any FOs cracking 200 when it takes 9 years to crack 100k on the current FO scale on the 7/7 schedule. So yea ill refute the numbers...
11-21-2018, 06:59 AM
#210
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,702
Originally Posted by Ni hao
Is Mark selling this? If they are selling this not only should you vote NO you should run.
24 hours before you walked on Wall Street you were sold out. 2015 had so much that never made the final TA. Sadly very few knew what you should have got. From travel, DH pay, OT pay for no non stop home, hotel and training iron clad language, middle seat pay, shorter duty days, a true DC retirement. Night pay (now on the table 3 years later) you never knew because your union with held all this.
So why now. How did Adam Johnson find $ 400 million 3 years later. Why and how. Ask the real questions. The company came back to the table 3 times. They want this way too bad. This is a pig just like 2015. You are being sold once again to the highest bidder. Why should you have to fly more to earn $$. Why a signing bonus? (Obvious right?) Why no DC like Delta or United? What about safety? Why do I have to fly more to make more money? Will I ground a jet because I am scheduled to fly TEB VNY. That's big bucks now right? Why does seniority mean nothing except for vacation? Will the A team now get all the trips? What stop gap is in place? Who and why?
It smells top to bottom.
24 hours before you walked on Wall Street you were sold out. 2015 had so much that never made the final TA. Sadly very few knew what you should have got. From travel, DH pay, OT pay for no non stop home, hotel and training iron clad language, middle seat pay, shorter duty days, a true DC retirement. Night pay (now on the table 3 years later) you never knew because your union with held all this.
So why now. How did Adam Johnson find $ 400 million 3 years later. Why and how. Ask the real questions. The company came back to the table 3 times. They want this way too bad. This is a pig just like 2015. You are being sold once again to the highest bidder. Why should you have to fly more to earn $$. Why a signing bonus? (Obvious right?) Why no DC like Delta or United? What about safety? Why do I have to fly more to make more money? Will I ground a jet because I am scheduled to fly TEB VNY. That's big bucks now right? Why does seniority mean nothing except for vacation? Will the A team now get all the trips? What stop gap is in place? Who and why?
It smells top to bottom.
The CC schedules in SPOSTA 2015 were designed to cut head count. The IBI will cut head count even more as people chase longer schedules and more flight hours.
This deal encourages flying tired, sick, or broken. Recipe for disaster. (No, I DON’T trust the “professionalism” of all of my colleagues-it only takes one-and we’ve got way more than one)
The Bubba Club PayPal accounts will be kicking into overdrive. The usual suspects will get ALL the long haul flying now. They are welcome to it.
The negotiating “committee” of one has done it again.
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