NetJets new Contract
11-23-2018 | 08:52 PM
#231
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: CL650
I get the argument that per diem isn't incomer per the IRS standards, rather a sum paid to cover travel, lodging, and meals. However, in the real world where logic and common sense seems to rule at least in most aspects of life, If money is coming in that requires you to GO TO WORK and do your job and spend NOTHING to get it, therefore that is income no matter which way you slice it. I rarely spend money on the road. Maybe 20 to 30 a cycle. I don't drink on the road. Just not what I choose to do. Secondly, If you don't go to work, you do not get PAID per diem. It doesn't magically show up, right? Just because the IRS says it's a non taxable item, it is still classified as non taxable event which translates to INCOME!!!!!!!!!! It doesn't qualify towards 'earned income' credits ot status and has zero liabilities or contingencies with regards to limits either.
NJA and FLX both provide 3 squares a day. 2 catered meals and one sit down or whichever order you choose at FLX. So long as you go to work, you get your 16 days a month per diem just for showing up. Work over 16, you get additional. It's that simple. If it isn't income, do you tell them you'd rather not have it as it's not 'real' income. I see both sides of the coin. At the end of the month, do you treat your money differently because it isn't 'real' income. Do they not spend the same?
NJA and FLX both provide 3 squares a day. 2 catered meals and one sit down or whichever order you choose at FLX. So long as you go to work, you get your 16 days a month per diem just for showing up. Work over 16, you get additional. It's that simple. If it isn't income, do you tell them you'd rather not have it as it's not 'real' income. I see both sides of the coin. At the end of the month, do you treat your money differently because it isn't 'real' income. Do they not spend the same?
My employer provides hotel accommodations and a daily stipend to cover living expenses while conducting business away from my home domicile on their behalf.
The hotel and stipend (per diem) are logistical necessities. My employer is not giving me a hotel room as compensation for work nor are they giving me per diem for the same.
Due to the scarcity of dining establishments near most FBOs and my employer's preference to keep me on duty "close-by" rather than release me to obtain nourishment off-site (utilizing per diem), my employer provides crewmeals.
The crewmeal program provides my employer a collection of "flight-ready" crews without the need to disrupt the operational schedule with meal breaks.
The program exists so they don't have to schedule regular meal breaks. It's entirely for their benefit - not ours.
The hotel, the per diem, and the crewmeals are operational components of the business -- they are not compensation.
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
11-24-2018 | 06:03 AM
#232
Banned
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Base wages haven’t increased but soft money has?!?! This pay raise is essentially riding on the hope that management will continue to be incompetent with regard to everything they do including scheduling. I’m willing to bet they will figure out the scheduling and QOL on the road pretty quickly. At least it’s QOL or a few more $’s which is One step In the right direction with an extension to top it off ��
1) NJ wants to grow... and to grow, it must have all pilots “on deck” when they show up to work and be able to at least fly average levels of flight hours like their peers. (Not sit there like seagulls).
Or
2) NJ wants to stay the same size and is concocting this entire TA simply to pay pilots less while staying the same size. Just to spite pilots.
Which sounds more plausible? In reality?
The plans are there to finish this year with growth. The plans are in place to finish next year... with growth.
Assuming the economy continutes to truck along, NJA is growing with it. My take is that this TA only tries to sweaten the pot by incentivizing some pilots to fly a little more which, for some, was well below what any reasonable fellow might call normal.
So far as the earnings potential under this agreement? I’ve seen projections for some on the 52 as low as $10k and I’ve seen the 76 come in as high as 60k. Regardless of seat. That’s ESPECIALLY tasty money for a FO.
That’s real money and it’s money that NJ is offering to pay pilots starting as early as late December. This year.
11-24-2018 | 07:46 AM
#233
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 9
From: PIC
As a transportation employee, travel from home is a necessary component of my career.
My employer provides hotel accommodations and a daily stipend to cover living expenses while conducting business away from my home domicile on their behalf.
The hotel and stipend (per diem) are logistical necessities. My employer is not giving me a hotel room as compensation for work nor are they giving me per diem for the same.
Due to the scarcity of dining establishments near most FBOs and my employer's preference to keep me on duty "close-by" rather than release me to obtain nourishment off-site (utilizing per diem), my employer provides crewmeals.
The crewmeal program provides my employer a collection of "flight-ready" crews without the need to disrupt the operational schedule with meal breaks.
The program exists so they don't have to schedule regular meal breaks. It's entirely for their benefit - not ours.
The hotel, the per diem, and the crewmeals are operational components of the business -- they are not compensation.
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
My employer provides hotel accommodations and a daily stipend to cover living expenses while conducting business away from my home domicile on their behalf.
The hotel and stipend (per diem) are logistical necessities. My employer is not giving me a hotel room as compensation for work nor are they giving me per diem for the same.
Due to the scarcity of dining establishments near most FBOs and my employer's preference to keep me on duty "close-by" rather than release me to obtain nourishment off-site (utilizing per diem), my employer provides crewmeals.
The crewmeal program provides my employer a collection of "flight-ready" crews without the need to disrupt the operational schedule with meal breaks.
The program exists so they don't have to schedule regular meal breaks. It's entirely for their benefit - not ours.
The hotel, the per diem, and the crewmeals are operational components of the business -- they are not compensation.
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
11-24-2018 | 07:58 AM
#234
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 9
From: PIC
A few opinions about the IBI TA:
1) It will pass and by a wide margin.
2) A year from now there will be about the same number or perhaps even fewer pilots on property operating a handful more aircraft. The desired “equillibrium” of this TA is for pilots to migrate to the longer schedules to chase more money. EXACTLY what happened with the creation of the CC schedules in 2015.
3) Quality of life will not improve substantially and, in some ways, will become worse. I’d LOVE to be the fly on the wall at the Safety meeting a year from now when they are crunching numbers from FOQA and ASAP data and see the error rates RISING and somebody has the cojones to correlate the numbers to fatigue. The mindset of min rest and 12 hours of duty as a goal is still with us and that won’t change.
4) We’ll be right back here a year from now, pockets marginally more full but still tired, still hating the job, and still *****ing. We’re NetJets pilots. It’s what we do.
1) It will pass and by a wide margin.
2) A year from now there will be about the same number or perhaps even fewer pilots on property operating a handful more aircraft. The desired “equillibrium” of this TA is for pilots to migrate to the longer schedules to chase more money. EXACTLY what happened with the creation of the CC schedules in 2015.
3) Quality of life will not improve substantially and, in some ways, will become worse. I’d LOVE to be the fly on the wall at the Safety meeting a year from now when they are crunching numbers from FOQA and ASAP data and see the error rates RISING and somebody has the cojones to correlate the numbers to fatigue. The mindset of min rest and 12 hours of duty as a goal is still with us and that won’t change.
4) We’ll be right back here a year from now, pockets marginally more full but still tired, still hating the job, and still *****ing. We’re NetJets pilots. It’s what we do.
11-24-2018 | 08:34 AM
#235
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,063
Likes: 0
This IBI keeps those currents modifiers and adds pay incentives for hours flown, night flying, and unnecessary scheduling practices. Most of the new money will be from hours flown, and I am pretty confident that will be at least 20K extra for me in a busier fleet. So, in my case I am estimating my pay, if this passes, to be base pay + 10% + 20K.
This does not count per diem, no matter how you wish to label it, and that is more realistically closer to 7K/year.
11-24-2018 | 10:14 AM
#236
Banned
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
A few opinions about the IBI TA:
1) It will pass and by a wide margin.
2) A year from now there will be about the same number or perhaps even fewer pilots on property operating a handful more aircraft. The desired “equillibrium” of this TA is for pilots to migrate to the longer schedules to chase more money. EXACTLY what happened with the creation of the CC schedules in 2015.
3) Quality of life will not improve substantially and, in some ways, will become worse. I’d LOVE to be the fly on the wall at the Safety meeting a year from now when they are crunching numbers from FOQA and ASAP data and see the error rates RISING and somebody has the cojones to correlate the numbers to fatigue. The mindset of min rest and 12 hours of duty as a goal is still with us and that won’t change.
4) We’ll be right back here a year from now, pockets marginally more full but still tired, still hating the job, and still *****ing. We’re NetJets pilots. It’s what we do.
1) It will pass and by a wide margin.
2) A year from now there will be about the same number or perhaps even fewer pilots on property operating a handful more aircraft. The desired “equillibrium” of this TA is for pilots to migrate to the longer schedules to chase more money. EXACTLY what happened with the creation of the CC schedules in 2015.
3) Quality of life will not improve substantially and, in some ways, will become worse. I’d LOVE to be the fly on the wall at the Safety meeting a year from now when they are crunching numbers from FOQA and ASAP data and see the error rates RISING and somebody has the cojones to correlate the numbers to fatigue. The mindset of min rest and 12 hours of duty as a goal is still with us and that won’t change.
4) We’ll be right back here a year from now, pockets marginally more full but still tired, still hating the job, and still *****ing. We’re NetJets pilots. It’s what we do.
The company has shrunk by 400 pilots since 2015 and the flying has stayed the same or even increased. This IBI is an absolutely genius way to increase productivity and the ability to sell more shares or jet cards, without having to bring on more airplanes or pilots to fly them.
One of two scenarios will happen, either it will be the raise everyone thinks it will be, and QOL will go further in the crapper, or the raise will be minimal and QOL will increase. It’s literally impossible to have it both ways based on this IBI.
11-24-2018 | 11:41 AM
#237
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Is Mark selling this? If they are selling this not only should you vote NO you should run.
24 hours before you walked on Wall Street you were sold out. 2015 had so much that never made the final TA. Sadly very few knew what you should have got. From travel, DH pay, OT pay for no non stop home, hotel and training iron clad language, middle seat pay, shorter duty days, a true DC retirement. Night pay (now on the table 3 years later) you never knew because your union with held all this.
So why now. How did Adam Johnson find $ 400 million 3 years later. Why and how. Ask the real questions. The company came back to the table 3 times. They want this way too bad. This is a pig just like 2015. You are being sold once again to the highest bidder. Why should you have to fly more to earn $$. Why a signing bonus? (Obvious right?) Why no DC like Delta or United? What about safety? Why do I have to fly more to make more money? Will I ground a jet because I am scheduled to fly TEB VNY. That's big bucks now right? Why does seniority mean nothing except for vacation? Will the A team now get all the trips? What stop gap is in place? Who and why?
It smells top to bottom.
24 hours before you walked on Wall Street you were sold out. 2015 had so much that never made the final TA. Sadly very few knew what you should have got. From travel, DH pay, OT pay for no non stop home, hotel and training iron clad language, middle seat pay, shorter duty days, a true DC retirement. Night pay (now on the table 3 years later) you never knew because your union with held all this.
So why now. How did Adam Johnson find $ 400 million 3 years later. Why and how. Ask the real questions. The company came back to the table 3 times. They want this way too bad. This is a pig just like 2015. You are being sold once again to the highest bidder. Why should you have to fly more to earn $$. Why a signing bonus? (Obvious right?) Why no DC like Delta or United? What about safety? Why do I have to fly more to make more money? Will I ground a jet because I am scheduled to fly TEB VNY. That's big bucks now right? Why does seniority mean nothing except for vacation? Will the A team now get all the trips? What stop gap is in place? Who and why?
It smells top to bottom.
11-24-2018 | 04:15 PM
#238
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 9
From: PIC
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