OhSnapAF

You know you're making the big bucks when they ask you to supersize it, you look around, start smiling, and say, "you know what, I make 150k as a pilot, and I am happy with this salary for the rest of my life and I live VERY comfortable. Yea, lets supersize all my meals tonight."

JMO127

Greed always ends up on top, right? Why do you think AA is having trouble once again paying their bills? You've got a 20 year guy doing 3 trips a month making $300k and complaining about how he doesn't get paid enough. Same at FEDEX, How is that right? Same reason the auto makers are closing up shop AGAIN! Greed is killing them all. I am told I am special and that should translate to more $ I'm paid for doing my job because I feel more special. GTFOH with that. Keep it up. Eventually they push back and you have a severe pay cut on your hands, jobs dry up, and you complain about the way things used to be. The good ole days. This is why our profession isn't taken seriously anymore. The ones that hold out because they feel special and want more money for doing less but(not even the same amount of Iwork) are no better than the welfare recipients that get a check for doing less and less. Keep it up with the more more more me me me attitude and you'll end up with less less less. It's economics 101. Only so much pie to go around. I'll break it down another way for you airline guys. Next time you fly, run the entire flight at 104%. 1 thing is sure to happen. It's eventually going to say, "no more" and quit running all together. The other option is to pull it back to under 100% (whole pie idea from economics 101) and make it last for the long term. Yes I realize there are always outliers in experiments and such but you get my point. Well, maybe not...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Enginethunder

I fly 91 corporate, supermidsize (CL 300), and make 200K with a pension and a 401K. We do Europe, South America, etc. Fly 400 hours a year. Am I making major airline money? Nope. Am I struggling? Nope. To be honest, I have been torn about making a try at 121, there are pros and cons to each. Money is just one variable.
YMMV

Peloton

Seriously if you really got educated and did some research you can see that the underlying reason a company goes out of business is not because of labor. That’s a fact that can be seen over and over again. Management loves to blame labor for its failings but upon a careful analysis it is easy to see that statement it false.

AA does not not have a issues paying its bills because of high pilot costs. It has issues servicing its debt because it is leveraged to the hilt as it’s retooling with new airplanes. It’s debt load is high not because it has to pay labor but because management made a mistake 20 years ago and stopped replacing airplanes then it had to buy an entire new fleet all at once. Dive into the SEC filings and you might learn a thing or two. AA labor took HUGE pay cuts in the past to keep the airline afloat, management did not follow through and they in fact gave themselves a bonus on the way to Bankruptcy court. But let’s blame labor while Doogie Parker continues to give himself raises so he can go to the annual conquistador meeting with the largest airline.

Great case study

Let’s look at the Hostess Bakery or old HB. It did not fail and liquidate because the workers refused to take a pay cut. They failed because of the debt load it got into in 2004 as it emerged from its first bankruptcy filing. It loaded on debt while the snack cake business went to hell as people made better choices in what they ate. Management blamed labor and the high cost for the problem all the way up till it liquidated. It was a sham and anyone with a basic understanding of business can see it as such. I mean management gave themselves an 80 percent bonus the years leading up to the filing while at the same time shrinking their work force and demanding pay cuts from labor. Remember also that labor had an equity stake in the company but you didn’t see the Union screaming it’s members had to take a pay cut, they saw it for what it was. They could have worked for free and it would have given the company 18 more months, that’s it.

Now this will all be lost on you as you are an ideologue. Someone who can not see facts for what they are and has such deep seated beliefs, wrong as they might be, that facts be damned. I wish you the best but try picking up a little humility and understand you can learn from others as they can learn from you.

OhSnapAF

Thats a good job. I don't scoff jobs like that. As long as you are treated right, have good QOL and work rules, that sounds like a nice job. The grass is always greener, and I made it a personal rule to never chase the dollar, or upgrade, which is probably why I won't leave my current airline for Delta if offered a job there. But with regard to NJA, I was working too hard, not paid enough, and the career outlook was poor. It was a no brainer to leave and I am still super happy I did 2 years later.

The thing with the airlines, is you can literally have your cake, and eat it too. I get more time off at my airline, and get paid more, than I did at NJA. On top of that I get 16% into my 401k among other things. I know guys that do transcon commutes to work and would never leave their airline job for NetJets or a corporate job. To each their own though, that is the beauty of this industry. If you are happy with the money you are making and life is good, why mess that up!?

dera

When was the last time AA had issues servicing its debt?
The debt they have is cheap, and they have the youngest fleet of the legacy airlines. They don't hedge their fuel so that puts them in a strong position if/when oil goes back up again.

I just loaded up on AAL, I expect it to do really well in the next 12 months.

Peloton

For every buyer there is a seller.

They are the most highly leveraged airline around. Their balance sheet in last SEC filings tell the story. Do they have a young fleet? Yes but they owe money on the planes, they are not free.

Latest numbers are AA has 22B in short and long term debt. It’s cash position is 5B to invest and it generates around 4B. That puts us cash to debt ratio of around 18 percent. Pretty inefficient use of debt to finance growth. In addition it does not generate enough to cover its current debt load, thus the statement I made. For example Delta is the opposite as it sits on 10B in debt. A much easier debt load to satisfy.

Now it’s true it currently can cover liabilities with current revenue but they will run into problems when the next recession or slowdown hits the travel market. In addition interest rates are creeping up and AA reissues debt to pay off old debt, thus that will lead to higher interest payments in the future. It will retire around 3B a year from 2018-2022. AA would have done better using the tax windfall to pay down debt and not make stock buybacks a priority.

But I digress with all this as my statement to the other dude was labor cost is not an issue as it’s debt load will be a bigger problem going forward thus his implication pilot pay will ruin the company is a red herring.

Gundriver64

You can live comfortably in many decent places for far less than 150K. I would love to find a pilot job with decent, and more importantly, consistent QOL. One of the suckiest jobs I've had was working for a major airline with respect to QOL.

P.S. Were you dropped on your head as a child?

dera

Bit of a thread hijack, but an interesting subject nevertheless.
They're loaded with debt, but their fleet renewal is fully funded, so there's no need to borrow any more. And they negotiated fantastic rates, so if the economy doesn't tank in the next couple of years, they are in a great place. Those investments will start paying dividends when they get more of the new planes flying.
I do agree, the stock buyback really wasn't a great idea and their timing was poor. But saying they are struggling is 100% inaccurate. That might happen if the economy falls on it's face, but for now, they are doing just fine. Market analysts seem to agree with this, given the favorable views.

OhSnapAF

Yore just saying that because you’re furloughed and have no choice but to love your crappy 135 job. You actually fit a large narrative of those at NJA.