Everything You Need to Know about XO
11-13-2021, 07:37 PM
#11
XOJET Citation X
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DO, Baker Aviation, Citation X
Posts: 316
Mandala,
No offense taken by your post. Very professional asked.
First off, thanks for the work you and others did in laying the foundation for a very good 135 operator….great culture and like any company culture can slip away very easily or be improved. Also congrats on finding your next Aviation home. It sounds like you took advantage of what XO had to offer…well done. Always good to see folks moving on in achieving their career goals.
My specific comments to your thoughts are below in red.
[QUOTE=Mandala;3321918]Long time lurker, used to have an account to which I've long forgotten my password and email for and a former of XO from back in the "old" days who has moved on to greener pastures as well. I just have to ask a question
Chase, all of your posts about XO have been nothing but sunshine and roses but do you ever talk about any of the negatives?
No job is perfect..I state that fairly often but one person's negatives are another person's positives or "doesn't bother me".
For example,an 8/6 or 15/13 schedule to a 121 applicant can be pretty negative but to someone who is coming from a 91 gig where they get 5 days off a month, well, a typical 135 schedule looks very good. it is within the range of the standard in 135 ops.
I know of several former 121 folks who left because they couldn’t adjust to that schedule. I just point out what the schedule is and let the reader decide if it fits them without passing judgement. For me to describe that as a negative is a bit presumptuous I think. The schedule options are clearly stated in any of the info sheets found on APF or other places of the various 135 operators. I've come to enjoy the 8/6 schedule and I didn't think initially I would.
QOL issues are common complaints so my take on those.
Hotels - better quality than I had at SWA, more choices, complaints can be made and a change to hotel will be made (not always but many times) if affordable options can be had….is XO under pressure to maintain the higher level of hotels?
Yes because it is about dollars and cents. The RON committed negotiated lower rates during Covid along with others…we got swinging deals but with economy trying to come back and some hotels closing, the hotels have gotten tighter and with VJ keeping track of dollars and cents, those pressures exist.
The RON are fighting to keep the standards that have been enjoyed in the past but things may change.
Crew Rest/work day length: Yes there are 2 hrs more a day 135 operators can fly.
Have I been pushed to that limit?
Yes.
Is it a long day?
Yea..anyone who says they haven't is lying.
Is it the routine?
Not even close.
Does XO have a system in place to manage that? Yes and it is better than what I experienced at SWA?
Yes, most definitely.
Do others get abused or feel they do? I suspect they do but I can only comment on my experiences.
Do I work harder here than I did at SWA? Honestly no but that is me. Our clients don’t like to fly early AMs and late PMs…more business hours. If you’ve never swapped between AMs and PMs like in the 121 world, then our type of flying can be long days and yes there are some but on average, my average day is less than what I experienced at SWA but all I can do is comment from my perspective.
Pay/benefits: These are all posted for all the carriers on here and other places. Any applicant can attest to what they can make In a year by doing their homework with the carrier they are interested in.
.Is the RT working to improve those numbers?
Yes, just as the guys who worked the RT when you were there.
Not everyone puts money at the top of the list but if I was trying to convince someone to come to XO because they were going to make more money than other 135 carriers or a 121 carrier, I would be false advertising.
I don't recall a post like that from me. Working to improve comm to find out what priorities are is always the challenge and is being worked on within the XO pilot group.
Leadership/management: Very common complaint among pilots. I served under Herb for 4 yrs, Gary Kelly for 16. More importantly the flt ops leadership was more of an influencer.
XO flight ops leadership? No complaints from me on our team. For the top management, we’ve had 3 COOs since I arrived. New COO Is working on making changes but it is a big task. Do I give him the benefit of the doubt? Yes.
Do others? Ask them, everyone is different.
We’ve moved the entire headquarters from CA to FL, lost a lot of talented folks (all discussed by me when it was happening) but dwelling/harping is not my style but for others, it maybe a recurring nightmare.
Biggest choke point right now is an IT deficit…the exact same thing at SWA when I was there. New systems, new phones, new apps, changing password…all first world problems but irritants that stretches the patience of some.
Personally, what I prefer to focus on is how the pilots, despite those challenges have operated an amazingly safe operations and overcome tremendous hurdles. We’re flying more than we ever have, buying more planes, finally hiring more pilots than ever before, etc. The merging of seniority Challenger pilots from VJ and XO didn’t suit everyone’s desires but I’ve never seen a seniority merger accomplish complete satisfaction.
XO in the early day overcame some serious hurdles, “Black Friday”, buying a third type of airplane that didn’t work out, flying out of the ME for awhile…despite those business blunders the “People” made the difference and pulled in the same direction.
I’ve spoken to dozens and dozens of persons on the phone, answered all the questions asked of me in a manner that I think is truthful and honest.
If I’ve said something that is wrong or misleading, you say I have, point me to those posts. If it is about tone and tenor of my posts, sorry, I stand by my comments until proven wrong, both the good and bad.
I'm not here to dog on XO (don’t feel you have or taken offense at anything you have said, honestly) as I felt it was overall a good place to spend some time while deciding what you wanted to do next or build that experience to take the next step towards the 121 world if that's what you wanted. But a lot of your posts smell a bit of the old "squirrel" culture we had at XO and while you're still a relatively new guy at XO its hard not to see that...
Not sure what an old squirrel culture smells like or who you are referring too. Not sure the average lurker or reader knows either but oh well. Still a newbie at XO after 2 yrs? OK…when do I earn the experience to make comments that are valid? 3, 4 or when I cast aspersions against XO?
I learn how to be a better aviator from all experience levels of pilots…no one has a corner on passing along wisdom even to an “young squirrel” like me.
Just wanted people to hear both sides, because if all you have are good things to say we know that's not true as every company has it's pro's and cons.
Very true. I always encourage folks to never take one person’s comments as gospel, especially mine!… search out others and compare the stories…
Also please don't take that as an attack, as a former XO pilot with a genuine question. Not taken as an attack at all my friend…again, very professionally delivered. More of a half full type of guy than a half empty guy myself but never will say the glass is full because it isn’t! [/QUOTE/]
No offense taken by your post. Very professional asked.
First off, thanks for the work you and others did in laying the foundation for a very good 135 operator….great culture and like any company culture can slip away very easily or be improved. Also congrats on finding your next Aviation home. It sounds like you took advantage of what XO had to offer…well done. Always good to see folks moving on in achieving their career goals.
My specific comments to your thoughts are below in red.
[QUOTE=Mandala;3321918]Long time lurker, used to have an account to which I've long forgotten my password and email for and a former of XO from back in the "old" days who has moved on to greener pastures as well. I just have to ask a question
Chase, all of your posts about XO have been nothing but sunshine and roses but do you ever talk about any of the negatives?
No job is perfect..I state that fairly often but one person's negatives are another person's positives or "doesn't bother me".
For example,an 8/6 or 15/13 schedule to a 121 applicant can be pretty negative but to someone who is coming from a 91 gig where they get 5 days off a month, well, a typical 135 schedule looks very good. it is within the range of the standard in 135 ops.
I know of several former 121 folks who left because they couldn’t adjust to that schedule. I just point out what the schedule is and let the reader decide if it fits them without passing judgement. For me to describe that as a negative is a bit presumptuous I think. The schedule options are clearly stated in any of the info sheets found on APF or other places of the various 135 operators. I've come to enjoy the 8/6 schedule and I didn't think initially I would.
QOL issues are common complaints so my take on those.
Hotels - better quality than I had at SWA, more choices, complaints can be made and a change to hotel will be made (not always but many times) if affordable options can be had….is XO under pressure to maintain the higher level of hotels?
Yes because it is about dollars and cents. The RON committed negotiated lower rates during Covid along with others…we got swinging deals but with economy trying to come back and some hotels closing, the hotels have gotten tighter and with VJ keeping track of dollars and cents, those pressures exist.
The RON are fighting to keep the standards that have been enjoyed in the past but things may change.
Crew Rest/work day length: Yes there are 2 hrs more a day 135 operators can fly.
Have I been pushed to that limit?
Yes.
Is it a long day?
Yea..anyone who says they haven't is lying.
Is it the routine?
Not even close.
Does XO have a system in place to manage that? Yes and it is better than what I experienced at SWA?
Yes, most definitely.
Do others get abused or feel they do? I suspect they do but I can only comment on my experiences.
Do I work harder here than I did at SWA? Honestly no but that is me. Our clients don’t like to fly early AMs and late PMs…more business hours. If you’ve never swapped between AMs and PMs like in the 121 world, then our type of flying can be long days and yes there are some but on average, my average day is less than what I experienced at SWA but all I can do is comment from my perspective.
Pay/benefits: These are all posted for all the carriers on here and other places. Any applicant can attest to what they can make In a year by doing their homework with the carrier they are interested in.
.Is the RT working to improve those numbers?
Yes, just as the guys who worked the RT when you were there.
Not everyone puts money at the top of the list but if I was trying to convince someone to come to XO because they were going to make more money than other 135 carriers or a 121 carrier, I would be false advertising.
I don't recall a post like that from me. Working to improve comm to find out what priorities are is always the challenge and is being worked on within the XO pilot group.
Leadership/management: Very common complaint among pilots. I served under Herb for 4 yrs, Gary Kelly for 16. More importantly the flt ops leadership was more of an influencer.
XO flight ops leadership? No complaints from me on our team. For the top management, we’ve had 3 COOs since I arrived. New COO Is working on making changes but it is a big task. Do I give him the benefit of the doubt? Yes.
Do others? Ask them, everyone is different.
We’ve moved the entire headquarters from CA to FL, lost a lot of talented folks (all discussed by me when it was happening) but dwelling/harping is not my style but for others, it maybe a recurring nightmare.
Biggest choke point right now is an IT deficit…the exact same thing at SWA when I was there. New systems, new phones, new apps, changing password…all first world problems but irritants that stretches the patience of some.
Personally, what I prefer to focus on is how the pilots, despite those challenges have operated an amazingly safe operations and overcome tremendous hurdles. We’re flying more than we ever have, buying more planes, finally hiring more pilots than ever before, etc. The merging of seniority Challenger pilots from VJ and XO didn’t suit everyone’s desires but I’ve never seen a seniority merger accomplish complete satisfaction.
XO in the early day overcame some serious hurdles, “Black Friday”, buying a third type of airplane that didn’t work out, flying out of the ME for awhile…despite those business blunders the “People” made the difference and pulled in the same direction.
I’ve spoken to dozens and dozens of persons on the phone, answered all the questions asked of me in a manner that I think is truthful and honest.
If I’ve said something that is wrong or misleading, you say I have, point me to those posts. If it is about tone and tenor of my posts, sorry, I stand by my comments until proven wrong, both the good and bad.
I'm not here to dog on XO (don’t feel you have or taken offense at anything you have said, honestly) as I felt it was overall a good place to spend some time while deciding what you wanted to do next or build that experience to take the next step towards the 121 world if that's what you wanted. But a lot of your posts smell a bit of the old "squirrel" culture we had at XO and while you're still a relatively new guy at XO its hard not to see that...
Not sure what an old squirrel culture smells like or who you are referring too. Not sure the average lurker or reader knows either but oh well. Still a newbie at XO after 2 yrs? OK…when do I earn the experience to make comments that are valid? 3, 4 or when I cast aspersions against XO?
I learn how to be a better aviator from all experience levels of pilots…no one has a corner on passing along wisdom even to an “young squirrel” like me.
Just wanted people to hear both sides, because if all you have are good things to say we know that's not true as every company has it's pro's and cons.
Very true. I always encourage folks to never take one person’s comments as gospel, especially mine!… search out others and compare the stories…
Also please don't take that as an attack, as a former XO pilot with a genuine question. Not taken as an attack at all my friend…again, very professionally delivered. More of a half full type of guy than a half empty guy myself but never will say the glass is full because it isn’t! [/QUOTE/]
11-21-2021, 07:00 AM
#13
XOJET Citation X
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DO, Baker Aviation, Citation X
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by ESQ702
chase - thanks for the info on XO. How flexible are they on the 500 ME time for SICs?
When you get the mins please apply don't be hesitant because you only have the mins.
Thanks thanks for inquiring and asking
11-21-2021, 09:42 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by ESQ702
How flexible are they on the 500 ME time for SICs?
For Chase, there still seems to be some confusion on the 100 hr turbine requirement and whether it exists or not. I don't know the answer but when the Captain that did my tech interview mentioned getting a waiver for the turbine time, things got confusing.....
No turbine time listed here:
https://jobs.jobvite.com/xojet/jobs/category?c=Pilots
100 hours turbine listed here:
https://jobs.jobvite.com/xojet/job/ozN4efwo
Last edited by MtnFlying; 11-21-2021 at 09:56 AM.
11-21-2021, 11:15 AM
#15
XOJET Citation X
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DO, Baker Aviation, Citation X
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by MtnFlying
Hope you have some turbine ME time included to eliminate any confusion, otherwise don't waste your time (or theirs) until you have 100 hours or more.
For Chase, there still seems to be some confusion on the 100 hr turbine requirement and whether it exists or not. I don't know the answer but when the Captain that did my tech interview mentioned getting a waiver for the turbine time, things got confusing.....
No turbine time listed here:
https://jobs.jobvite.com/xojet/jobs/category?c=Pilots
100 hours turbine listed here:
https://jobs.jobvite.com/xojet/job/ozN4efwo
For Chase, there still seems to be some confusion on the 100 hr turbine requirement and whether it exists or not. I don't know the answer but when the Captain that did my tech interview mentioned getting a waiver for the turbine time, things got confusing.....
No turbine time listed here:
https://jobs.jobvite.com/xojet/jobs/category?c=Pilots
100 hours turbine listed here:
https://jobs.jobvite.com/xojet/job/ozN4efwo
12-11-2021, 01:20 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by chase
will ask the right people and get an answer. Thks for pointing that out.
12-11-2021, 04:36 PM
#17
XOJET Citation X
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DO, Baker Aviation, Citation X
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by MtnFlying
Chase, I see the discrepancy is still there, any luck finding out what the real deal is on the turbine time requirement?
My bad..I owe you one. Will gett an answer from the folks on Monday. Again my apologies.
12-18-2021, 05:53 AM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by AA717driver
What are the typical FO duties? Walkaround, load bags, greet the pax? How about flight planning—how involved are the FO’s? Do you swap legs or CA flys the live legs?
Whats a typical post Covid day?
Thanks!
TC
Whats a typical post Covid day?
Thanks!
TC
Pretty much. The duties you listed above are for the non-flying pilot that day. Even the captain still loads bags and helps cleans.
. Some captains like to swap legs. I like to swap days. Flight planning is now done by the company (it used to be AIRINC).
12-18-2021, 11:21 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Poolside
Posts: 534
AA717Driver: You'll be busy, but you'll love the folks you fly with. Captain and FO share all the duties in getting the airplane ready and safely to its destination. Sometimes you'll greet the passenger, check IDs, conduct safety briefing, etc., and sometimes the Captain will. It's a very collaborative environment and you watch each other's backs...
