Fractional or Regional
10-28-2023, 09:40 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by jdm7565
This is a really interesting and informative thread! My fiancé has a CJO from Spirit (CFI through a partner program) but now that they have stopped new hire classes until further notice, it definitely is making her look at new options (while her end goal is still a legacy). TBH, I don't even know if she would be looked at by NJ/FJ with bare minimum times...but she will be restricted to commuting out of PNS until end of 2025 and that seems like a LONG time to commute for any airline but especially more so at a regional. Are we missing anything between weighing the factors of: 1) "if you want to go 121, go 121" since she would *likely* build hours faster at a regional/ULCC (while commuting) vice at a fractional 2) withstand or avoid the dread of commuting out of a heavy commuter airport (PNS)?
"she is likely to build hours sooner"- another falicy. From CJO to training is around 1-2 months max at 135s (I was 2 weeks from CJO), Regionals are currently at 6+months. Training footprint is about 1 month at 135 and 6 weeks at 121. When you start to add up the delays, you will be 3-4 months into your flying at a 135 before you touch a 121 airplane. Also upgrades are arounf 6 months (from START of training) so 2 months after you started to fly the line at a 121, had you went 135, you would be ready to upgrade at most and be logging TPIC time. Once you hit 2000 hours, most majors are looking at you, include the TPIC time you get at 135s and you are way more competitive.
10-29-2023, 04:58 AM
#22
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by followingdreams
"If want to go 121, go 121" is a complete falicy. That USED to be the case, Majors REQUIRED 1000 121 PIC tim to even look at an application, otherwise if you had 135 time you needed to go to a regional. That is no longer the case. They are hiring more from 135 than they ever have because they cant keep depleting their regional partners.
"she is likely to build hours sooner"- another falicy. From CJO to training is around 1-2 months max at 135s (I was 2 weeks from CJO), Regionals are currently at 6+months. Training footprint is about 1 month at 135 and 6 weeks at 121. When you start to add up the delays, you will be 3-4 months into your flying at a 135 before you touch a 121 airplane. Also upgrades are arounf 6 months (from START of training) so 2 months after you started to fly the line at a 121, had you went 135, you would be ready to upgrade at most and be logging TPIC time. Once you hit 2000 hours, most majors are looking at you, include the TPIC time you get at 135s and you are way more competitive.
"she is likely to build hours sooner"- another falicy. From CJO to training is around 1-2 months max at 135s (I was 2 weeks from CJO), Regionals are currently at 6+months. Training footprint is about 1 month at 135 and 6 weeks at 121. When you start to add up the delays, you will be 3-4 months into your flying at a 135 before you touch a 121 airplane. Also upgrades are arounf 6 months (from START of training) so 2 months after you started to fly the line at a 121, had you went 135, you would be ready to upgrade at most and be logging TPIC time. Once you hit 2000 hours, most majors are looking at you, include the TPIC time you get at 135s and you are way more competitive.
10-29-2023, 10:20 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
Are ANY fractionals taking a low time new hire, especially a CFI ‘only’, and upgrading them to TPIC in 6 months? What’s the minimum requirements? Will they upgrade a new hire SIC in 6 months who got hired with 1500 TT and 50 hrs MEL recip? At 6 months they’ll gave another 200-250 hrs TT/TSIC.
Here’s a Part 135 OTS (off the street) PIC minimums -
Certificate Type: ATP Required for PIC – ATP Written Required for SIC -
PIC:
Total Time: 3,000
Pilot In Command: 1,500
Multi Engine: 2,500
Multi Engine PIC: 1,500
Turbine Time: 2,000
’In house’ minimums has to be different because a new hire SIC who doesn’t meet the PIC/TPIC requirements will NEVER get the PIC/TPIC requirements while flying there as a SIC.
Here’s a Part 135 OTS (off the street) PIC minimums -
Certificate Type: ATP Required for PIC – ATP Written Required for SIC -
PIC:
Total Time: 3,000
Pilot In Command: 1,500
Multi Engine: 2,500
Multi Engine PIC: 1,500
Turbine Time: 2,000
’In house’ minimums has to be different because a new hire SIC who doesn’t meet the PIC/TPIC requirements will NEVER get the PIC/TPIC requirements while flying there as a SIC.
10-29-2023, 11:09 AM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Sliceback
Are ANY fractionals taking a low time new hire, especially a CFI ‘only’, and upgrading them to TPIC in 6 months? What’s the minimum requirements? Will they upgrade a new hire SIC in 6 months who got hired with 1500 TT and 50 hrs MEL recip?
ATP mins;
yes
10-29-2023, 06:22 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by Sliceback
Are ANY fractionals taking a low time new hire, especially a CFI ‘only’, and upgrading them to TPIC in 6 months? What’s the minimum requirements? Will they upgrade a new hire SIC in 6 months who got hired with 1500 TT and 50 hrs MEL recip? At 6 months they’ll gave another 200-250 hrs TT/TSIC.
10-29-2023, 06:31 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by followingdreams
"If want to go 121, go 121" is a complete falicy. That USED to be the case, Majors REQUIRED 1000 121 PIC tim to even look at an application, otherwise if you had 135 time you needed to go to a regional. That is no longer the case. They are hiring more from 135 than they ever have because they cant keep depleting their regional partners.
"she is likely to build hours sooner"- another falicy. From CJO to training is around 1-2 months max at 135s (I was 2 weeks from CJO), Regionals are currently at 6+months. Training footprint is about 1 month at 135 and 6 weeks at 121. When you start to add up the delays, you will be 3-4 months into your flying at a 135 before you touch a 121 airplane. Also upgrades are arounf 6 months (from START of training) so 2 months after you started to fly the line at a 121, had you went 135, you would be ready to upgrade at most and be logging TPIC time. Once you hit 2000 hours, most majors are looking at you, include the TPIC time you get at 135s and you are way more competitive.
"she is likely to build hours sooner"- another falicy. From CJO to training is around 1-2 months max at 135s (I was 2 weeks from CJO), Regionals are currently at 6+months. Training footprint is about 1 month at 135 and 6 weeks at 121. When you start to add up the delays, you will be 3-4 months into your flying at a 135 before you touch a 121 airplane. Also upgrades are arounf 6 months (from START of training) so 2 months after you started to fly the line at a 121, had you went 135, you would be ready to upgrade at most and be logging TPIC time. Once you hit 2000 hours, most majors are looking at you, include the TPIC time you get at 135s and you are way more competitive.
10-29-2023, 08:56 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by Sliceback
Are ANY fractionals taking a low time new hire, especially a CFI ‘only’, and upgrading them to TPIC in 6 months? What’s the minimum requirements? Will they upgrade a new hire SIC in 6 months who got hired with 1500 TT and 50 hrs MEL recip? At 6 months they’ll gave another 200-250 hrs TT/TSIC.
Here’s a Part 135 OTS (off the street) PIC minimums -
Certificate Type: ATP Required for PIC – ATP Written Required for SIC -
PIC:
Total Time: 3,000
Pilot In Command: 1,500
Multi Engine: 2,500
Multi Engine PIC: 1,500
Turbine Time: 2,000
’In house’ minimums has to be different because a new hire SIC who doesn’t meet the PIC/TPIC requirements will NEVER get the PIC/TPIC requirements while flying there as a SIC.
Here’s a Part 135 OTS (off the street) PIC minimums -
Certificate Type: ATP Required for PIC – ATP Written Required for SIC -
PIC:
Total Time: 3,000
Pilot In Command: 1,500
Multi Engine: 2,500
Multi Engine PIC: 1,500
Turbine Time: 2,000
’In house’ minimums has to be different because a new hire SIC who doesn’t meet the PIC/TPIC requirements will NEVER get the PIC/TPIC requirements while flying there as a SIC.
10-30-2023, 06:13 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Position: 135 SIC
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Brooklyn99
Insanely true. Didn't plan to leave fractional, but when I decided to, all this was crystal clear in hindsight. Zero 121 time, Flex captain; all legacies + SWA asked to interview. 2/2 so far, more to go. So let that be an encouragement for those thinking of trying the fractional side. And if everything slowed down, I personally feel being at Flex or NJA is better than slowing down at a regional, by a fair margin.
10-30-2023, 06:18 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
Originally Posted by Brooklyn99
Absolutely. Flex will take you provided you have ATP/CTP and written complete, and they will issue your ATP cert on your type ride. Once you're in, your upgrade to Phenom captain is determined by hire date only, and running about 7-8 months right now. So with CTP/written done, if you can pass the phone screen, HR, and sim eval, come on over and have at it.
10-30-2023, 08:30 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by Sliceback
They'll hire you at 1500 TT and upgrade you to Phenom CA at 1700-1800 TT? Assuming 2 months in training and flying 500 hrs a year. Wow.
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Bill Lumberg
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02-25-2013 09:30 AM
