NetJets instrument times
03-02-2008, 05:38 AM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: G550/GLEX FO
Posts: 12
NetJets instrument times
I've seen some of the other threads asking about competitive times. I am over their minimum total times, but a little shy of their instrument in aircraft times the way I've been computing it. Are they pretty firm on that minimum or will they look past it if you are over their other minimums. Speaking with someone else I trust as reputable, they say my problem is because I have only been recording instrument times for time I have actually been flying in the left seat and not while I've been acting as SIC. 61.51 is not pretty clear and I've done some searching and there are plenty of varying opinions on this. Some say because the aircraft requires a SIC they are still "operating the aircraft" while others dispute that. Any NetJet people out there know NetJets view on this?
03-02-2008, 06:01 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Front
Posts: 191
Originally Posted by heckler
I've seen some of the other threads asking about competitive times. I am over their minimum total times, but a little shy of their instrument in aircraft times the way I've been computing it. Are they pretty firm on that minimum or will they look past it if you are over their other minimums. Speaking with someone else I trust as reputable, they say my problem is because I have only been recording instrument times for time I have actually been flying in the left seat and not while I've been acting as SIC. 61.51 is not pretty clear and I've done some searching and there are plenty of varying opinions on this. Some say because the aircraft requires a SIC they are still "operating the aircraft" while others dispute that. Any NetJet people out there know NetJets view on this?
The way you are logging your instrument time is the way it's wanted. Your leg, your actual. Do not included actual instrument time flown by the PIC.
03-02-2008, 08:50 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: F/O- G-V/550
Posts: 1,163
Originally Posted by NJA Capt
Your leg, your actual. Do not included actual instrument time flown by the PIC.
03-02-2008, 09:47 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 359
As an SIC, I log all time - instrument, night, day. However, I only log the landings I perform and the approaches I shoot.
I'm sure there is an interpretation from the FAA about this issue, but I'm too lazy to search for it.
I'm sure there is an interpretation from the FAA about this issue, but I'm too lazy to search for it.
03-02-2008, 01:58 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Front
Posts: 191
Originally Posted by UCLAbruins
My opinion, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but........ If I'm a required crew member, whether I'm in the left or right seat, FP or NFP, I'm allowed to log everything- night, instrument, inst-approaches, X-country, everything, except PIC (if I'm NOT the one in command). If you are the NFP, you're still part of the flight-crew, monitoring the FP, making your calls, double-checking the approach-plates, not to mention your ass is just as much on the line if you bust an altitude or MDA. You have every right to that instrument time. I'm not an FAR expert, just what I think.
I can tell you as a fact, when NJA prints out your flight time report, all times are credited to the flying pilot. End of story. If the SIC flies the night IMC leg, the SIC gets ALL the time. The only thing in the Captain's line is "PIC" as the final authority. If it is the Captain's leg he gets ALL the time. Landings, IMC, and approaches are pilot specific. They are not "shared" items.
If NJA records its own pilots times this way, I feel very confident that it is the way they want applicants to present it.
03-02-2008, 05:19 PM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 91K
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by NJA Capt
I can tell you as a fact, when NJA prints out your flight time report, all times are credited to the flying pilot. End of story. If the SIC flies the night IMC leg, the SIC gets ALL the time. The only thing in the Captain's line is "PIC" as the final authority. If it is the Captain's leg he gets ALL the time. Landings, IMC, and approaches are pilot specific. They are not "shared" items.
Cheers
03-02-2008, 06:08 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: F/O- G-V/550
Posts: 1,163
Why are we even talking about "landings ", whoever lands, logs it, simple, who cares about landings. The topic here is "logging instrument time as the NFP", this is the subject, this is what Heckler inquired about. My opinion " both pilots are allowed to log it, regardless of performing FP or NFP duties", if you've read different on the FAR/AIM, then tell me about it, and I'll glady admit I'm wrong, the one thing I lack is a big ego.
03-02-2008, 07:36 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
The OP asked about NetJets. NJA works there.
You can make agruments tell you're blue in the face about how to interpret the FAR's and such. It might not help you get a job. I once had someone mention to me that they would be quick to tell an interviewer that they were missinterpreting the regs. I kinda laughed at that. You might be right but you'll not get the job. What's the point of that?
If I was a CP and some guy came to me logging actual while he wasn't even the flying pilot, I'd laugh him out of the room. I could care less what the regs say, it simply doesn't make any sense if you look at it from a practical standpoint.
Are we old skool or what NJA? What is becoming of this biz?
You can make agruments tell you're blue in the face about how to interpret the FAR's and such. It might not help you get a job. I once had someone mention to me that they would be quick to tell an interviewer that they were missinterpreting the regs. I kinda laughed at that. You might be right but you'll not get the job. What's the point of that?
If I was a CP and some guy came to me logging actual while he wasn't even the flying pilot, I'd laugh him out of the room. I could care less what the regs say, it simply doesn't make any sense if you look at it from a practical standpoint.
Are we old skool or what NJA? What is becoming of this biz?
03-02-2008, 08:01 PM
#10
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: EMB-110
Posts: 3
61.51 (g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.
This should clear that up. If you are not operating solely by reference, which the NFP is not, then you shouldn't be logging instrument time. My opinion.
This should clear that up. If you are not operating solely by reference, which the NFP is not, then you shouldn't be logging instrument time. My opinion.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
