I don't agree with that. I'm pretty sure the only regulatory issue is that you must clear obstacles by 35' and 200' laterally within the airport boundary, and within 300' beyond that.

"If you are using US Government NACO plates, obstacle climb gradients are indicated by a dagger symbology (sword); whereas, ATC climb gradients are published without any special symbology."

This is very good and probably the answer I'm looking for. Thank you for that.

 

.... and so in the absence of the dagger, 3.3 will keep you clear of obstacles, regardless of the published climb gradient on a SID. Is this correct?

 

This is simply not true. SID's must be part of an ATC clearance while an ODP does not require a clearance. I would agree with that. But to say an ODP is there because ATC is not... well that is just bogus.

 

Uhh, yes it is, but good luck with what ever you're looking for....

fyi, if you are taking off out of an uncontrolled field IFR and get a departure time, what SID will you fly? SIDs aren't always part of an IFR clearance. ODPs aren't either. It depends on whether ATC supports the airport or not.

have fun...

 

ODP's need not be part of an IFR clearance. And if you believe that an ODP is there for a case when "ATC isn't home", I would ask your explanation for a departure from a runway that includes both an ODP and a SID for a 24 hour airport. But that would be going off on a tangent. Anyway, I think I got my answer from KC10 FATboy.

 

Just remember that if departing an uncontrolled field when you can not maintain your own terrain separation and absent of any other clearance by ATC you must follow the ODP published on the back of the JEPP plate on the bottom box for the specific runway. Otherwise you must tell ATC that you can MAINTAIN YOUR OWN TERRAIN SEPARATION. Por ejemplo, try departing EGE or ASE by climbing to 400' and then turning on course maintaining a 3.3 degree climb gradient. In the real world we look at several different factors when it is IMC or night.

One-Engine-Inoperative Departure procedure-Aircraft Performance Group provides this data if required for that airport. *This will give you a non standard route to save your bacon if you bag a blower on departure*.
(I ALWAYS have this one in the back of my mind just incase)

JEPP DP on back of airport diagram for all-engines operative IMC departures

OR climb to 400' then proceed on course if their is no published ODP

Follow these steps at any airport and you will be safe. KC-10 is right that if non standard climb gradients are published for a SID and you are CLEARED via that SID then you must adhere to climb gradient or get a waiver from ATC regardless of whether it is for terrain, noise abatement or traffic.

Steel is also correct that if Tower is "home" you will not be doing a DP. You will either be cleared via a SID or given a heading to fly after takeoff to be funneled into the system. ODP=Uncontrolled field

 

All good comments and they are helpful. And certainly you must be able to comply with climb gradients when accepting a SID (based on all engines operating). I would just note that a SID is a DP, so to say that if the tower is "home" you will not be doing a DP is false. Also not true is ODP=Uncontrolled Field. That is incorrect. There are plenty of examples of runways served by both a SID and a ODP with a 24 hour control tower.

Reference the new Teterboro 6 off runway 1.

 

That is an interesting point, I wonder when if ever one would be issued a JEPP ODP from the back of the plate in lieu of a SID or Radar vectors at a tower operating airport. Maybe ATC does have the ability to issue a clearance like "fly the published ODP" But I have never heard of such a clearance. I make distiction between an airport diagram ODP and an actual dedicated SID.
In giving this further though I suppose that there might be a towered airport with mountainous terrain but is not served by a SID especially in other countries. This would definitely be a time where you would be cleared for takeoff but not given a SID or a radar vector but rather be expected to comply with the ODP on the back of the airport diagram. I havent ever run into this but now that I think of it, I bet it is fairly common in places like South America. Food for thought I guess.

 

I've been through the chart legend and looked over a variety of SIDs and have yet to see a dagger symbol. Please give a reference... anybody.

 

A 24 hour towered airport could still have a published ODP in the event the radar goes out.

Seems to me a SID of for ATC convenience. ie, they don't have to tell you the freqs / alts / routing if it's depicted and therefore makes their job easier.

An ODP, on the other hand, is simply to get the aircraft from the runway to the enroute structure without hitting dirt along the way. It's not for ATC, it's for the health of the pilot and pax.

I would also imagine that both SIDs and ODPs have to comply with the same climb gradient / terrain clearance requirements in the TERPs, but I could be wrong there. Just a hunch.