Frontier Negotiations Discussion
01-11-2018, 06:30 PM
#611
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,394
My bet is they schedule another lengthy negotiation session. Hopefully we can get released at the conclusion of that. The NMB probably needs a NMB head to witness the dysfunction before they release us.
01-11-2018, 06:38 PM
#612
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 79
Wasn’t that the point of entering into mediation to start with? If that’s the case what was the point of having a mediator sitting in on all of the negotiating sessions last year. I think the dysfunction has been made perfectly clear, time to move on to the next step.
01-11-2018, 06:38 PM
#613
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: A320
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by Aero1900
My bet is they schedule another lengthy negotiation session. Hopefully we can get released at the conclusion of that. The NMB probably needs a NMB head to witness the dysfunction before they release us.
01-11-2018, 07:48 PM
#615
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Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 491
I really hate the fact that we're still negotiating based on our initial "ask"/expectations that were formulated nearly 2 years ago. Even if we get everything we ask for, we'd still basically be one generation of contract improvements behind the rest of the industry.
Just using top captain hourly rates, we're $20/hr behind the industry even if we get exactly what we're asking for. I don't think we've even asked for profit sharing. How many 10's of thousands is that worth to our total compensation?
The heck of it is that I'm afraid the NMB takes the position that we need to give up some of what we're asking for in order to negotiate in good faith. This has happened to our pilot group in the past... we try to play the good guy role and start out with an imminently reasonable proposal. Management starts negotiations by proposing something completely ridiculous towards the low end and we meet in the middle. Do the math and "reasonable" at the high end blended with horse poo at the low end means that the only question remaining is just how much horse poo we'll be shoveling.
Just using top captain hourly rates, we're $20/hr behind the industry even if we get exactly what we're asking for. I don't think we've even asked for profit sharing. How many 10's of thousands is that worth to our total compensation?
The heck of it is that I'm afraid the NMB takes the position that we need to give up some of what we're asking for in order to negotiate in good faith. This has happened to our pilot group in the past... we try to play the good guy role and start out with an imminently reasonable proposal. Management starts negotiations by proposing something completely ridiculous towards the low end and we meet in the middle. Do the math and "reasonable" at the high end blended with horse poo at the low end means that the only question remaining is just how much horse poo we'll be shoveling.
01-11-2018, 07:53 PM
#616
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,394
Originally Posted by OpenClimb
I really hate the fact that we're still negotiating based on our initial "ask"/expectations that were formulated nearly 2 years ago. Even if we get everything we ask for, we'd still basically be one generation of contract improvements behind the rest of the industry.
Just using top captain hourly rates, we're $20/hr behind the industry even if we get exactly what we're asking for. I don't think we've even asked for profit sharing. How many 10's of thousands is that worth to our total compensation?
The heck of it is that I'm afraid the NMB takes the position that we need to give up some of what we're asking for in order to negotiate in good faith. This has happened to our pilot group in the past... we try to play the good guy role and start out with an imminently reasonable proposal. Management starts negotiations by proposing something completely ridiculous towards the low end and we meet in the middle. Do the math and "reasonable" at the high end blended with horse poo at the low end means that the only question remaining is just how much horse poo we'll be shoveling.
Just using top captain hourly rates, we're $20/hr behind the industry even if we get exactly what we're asking for. I don't think we've even asked for profit sharing. How many 10's of thousands is that worth to our total compensation?
The heck of it is that I'm afraid the NMB takes the position that we need to give up some of what we're asking for in order to negotiate in good faith. This has happened to our pilot group in the past... we try to play the good guy role and start out with an imminently reasonable proposal. Management starts negotiations by proposing something completely ridiculous towards the low end and we meet in the middle. Do the math and "reasonable" at the high end blended with horse poo at the low end means that the only question remaining is just how much horse poo we'll be shoveling.
01-11-2018, 08:06 PM
#617
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by Aero1900
You very well might be right, but we won't know for sure until we carefully read the TA. I have faith in our NC and in the ALPA team that is guiding them. We've got Bruce York on our side, and he's probably the best there is.
Why haven't our ALPA leaders even informed us of LOA 76? The first most of us heard of this concessionary LOA is when the Company recently published the updated contract via Comply365. I have no confidence in Mr. York.
01-11-2018, 09:12 PM
#618
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by OpenClimb
I really hate the fact that we're still negotiating based on our initial "ask"/expectations that were formulated nearly 2 years ago. Even if we get everything we ask for, we'd still basically be one generation of contract improvements behind the rest of the industry.
Just using top captain hourly rates, we're $20/hr behind the industry even if we get exactly what we're asking for. I don't think we've even asked for profit sharing. How many 10's of thousands is that worth to our total compensation?
The heck of it is that I'm afraid the NMB takes the position that we need to give up some of what we're asking for in order to negotiate in good faith. This has happened to our pilot group in the past... we try to play the good guy role and start out with an imminently reasonable proposal. Management starts negotiations by proposing something completely ridiculous towards the low end and we meet in the middle. Do the math and "reasonable" at the high end blended with horse poo at the low end means that the only question remaining is just how much horse poo we'll be shoveling.
Just using top captain hourly rates, we're $20/hr behind the industry even if we get exactly what we're asking for. I don't think we've even asked for profit sharing. How many 10's of thousands is that worth to our total compensation?
The heck of it is that I'm afraid the NMB takes the position that we need to give up some of what we're asking for in order to negotiate in good faith. This has happened to our pilot group in the past... we try to play the good guy role and start out with an imminently reasonable proposal. Management starts negotiations by proposing something completely ridiculous towards the low end and we meet in the middle. Do the math and "reasonable" at the high end blended with horse poo at the low end means that the only question remaining is just how much horse poo we'll be shoveling.
01-11-2018, 10:23 PM
#619
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 550
Originally Posted by DrJekyll MrHyde
Well, over 24hrs have passed since ALPA met with the NMB members to discuss status. I’m guessing it did not go well, because it takes longer to package bad news than good news. I doubt anyone is surprised. Sure glad Biffle took time away from the buffet line to come to DC to help prolong our decade-old bankruptcy contract.
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