Frontier Negotiations Discussion
12-04-2017 | 10:09 AM
#511
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 730
Likes: 22
From: Bus CA
The union nor company submit a proffer. The NMB does that and if either side says no then then you go to a cooling off period for 30 day followed by a strike or lockout.
Btw this time around the NMB is telling us to pound sand on any chance of being released because they think the company is being more than reasonable with their industry bottom offer. Attrition and recruitment are our main leverage at this point.
The company is also arguing that a full retro payment would be their entire profit for a year and it’s in no way possible. Never mind the retro could’ve been much smaller if they weren’t stalling at every turn. Even in the best negotiating environment in our careers the system is against us.
Get out! Don’t wait for Frontier to pay because indigo learned from mistakes last time how to now avoid a strike and still never pony up.
Btw this time around the NMB is telling us to pound sand on any chance of being released because they think the company is being more than reasonable with their industry bottom offer. Attrition and recruitment are our main leverage at this point.
The company is also arguing that a full retro payment would be their entire profit for a year and it’s in no way possible. Never mind the retro could’ve been much smaller if they weren’t stalling at every turn. Even in the best negotiating environment in our careers the system is against us.
Get out! Don’t wait for Frontier to pay because indigo learned from mistakes last time how to now avoid a strike and still never pony up.
12-04-2017 | 10:45 AM
#512
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
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Good to know. It this point the NMB is basically another company representative. They eat out of the company’s hand. You want them to proffer arbitration so you can then say no and get to a cooling off period. They say GFYS, and ice for years because the Alaska/Virgin arbitration states pay is based on size of the carrier. You (Spirit) are smaller than that so you deserve bottom pay. It’s bananas!!!
12-05-2017 | 05:24 AM
#514
Banned
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 163
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Good to know. It this point the NMB is basically another company representative. They eat out of the company’s hand. You want them to proffer arbitration so you can then say no and get to a cooling off period. They say GFYS, and ice for years because the Alaska/Virgin arbitration states pay is based on size of the carrier. You (Spirit) are smaller than that so you deserve bottom pay. It’s bananas!!!
12-05-2017 | 06:09 AM
#515
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 730
Likes: 22
From: Bus CA
I agree it’s BS how the NMB looks at things but understanding it is key to knowing the path forward. The nmb belives in economics of scale meaning lots of airframes charging high prices means higher pay for employees. In the case of Frontier and Spirit they have much lower base ticket rates and pay all employees lower. This is the whole premise of a ULCC. I’m not trying to be an ass but if you are sticking around hoping for the golden goose to lay its eggs at Spirit or Frontier you will be very disappointed. Stop talking and vote with your feet period.
12-05-2017 | 07:04 AM
#516
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 49
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From: A318-320 Front row, left of center
I agree it’s BS how the NMB looks at things but understanding it is key to knowing the path forward. The nmb belives in economics of scale meaning lots of airframes charging high prices means higher pay for employees. In the case of Frontier and Spirit they have much lower base ticket rates and pay all employees lower. This is the whole premise of a ULCC. I’m not trying to be an ass but if you are sticking around hoping for the golden goose to lay its eggs at Spirit or Frontier you will be very disappointed. Stop talking and vote with your feet period.
GFY Beans!
Last edited by Southerndog; 12-05-2017 at 07:16 AM.
12-05-2017 | 07:28 AM
#517
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
From: Beech 1900D
His argument is complete and utter union busting vomit. Frontier affording a pilot contract has nothing to do with individual ticket price. It has everything to do with overall profitability of the entire operation. As anyone with a brain knows (not Beans), we more than make up for low ticket prices by cramming as many seats in the airplane as is legal, ancillary fees, as well as utilizing the aircraft around the clock! Beans, the vote was unanimous; GFY!
12-05-2017 | 09:01 AM
#518
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 165
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From: A320/CA
So riddle me this Beans, or anyone else who can answer this, in regard to the logic of the Alaska arbitration award and saying that wages are dictated by the size of the airline. Because I really think I might be missing something here. Let's assume Frontier has a CASM of 5 cents a mile and a RASM of 10. And Delta has a CASM of 10 and RASM of 15. The spread of both of them is 5. Doesn't that mean that the two pilot groups are bargaining from a similar economic position regardless of the size of the carrier?
12-05-2017 | 09:19 AM
#519
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 432
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I agree it’s BS how the NMB looks at things but understanding it is key to knowing the path forward. The nmb belives in economics of scale meaning lots of airframes charging high prices means higher pay for employees. In the case of Frontier and Spirit they have much lower base ticket rates and pay all employees lower. This is the whole premise of a ULCC. I’m not trying to be an ass but if you are sticking around hoping for the golden goose to lay its eggs at Spirit or Frontier you will be very disappointed. Stop talking and vote with your feet period.
So your statement that all employees of a ULCC must be paid less than their larger peers is simply not true.
Regarding executive salary, Frontier is on par with Southwest Airlines. Tell me why it shouldn't be the same with the pilots.
12-05-2017 | 09:42 AM
#520
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 432
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Also remember, there was a time not that long ago when the ULCC model did not exist. But there was a company with an LCC business model called Southwest Airlines.
Even though SWA was smaller than their legacy airline peers and charged a much lower ticket fee, they were able to pay their pilots a wage that exceeded their much larger traditional counterparts.
Beans, your logic is flawed.
.
Even though SWA was smaller than their legacy airline peers and charged a much lower ticket fee, they were able to pay their pilots a wage that exceeded their much larger traditional counterparts.
Beans, your logic is flawed.
.
Last edited by ColdWhiskey; 12-05-2017 at 09:57 AM.
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