Furlough
08-19-2020, 07:18 PM
#351
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,138
They even left the door open for further reductions in November if booking don’t pick up. This is not a bluff. Apparently there are still some pilots that believe it is. Management already secured 1000 fa colas. Roughly the same % of the pilot reduction.
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 08-19-2020 at 07:30 PM.
08-19-2020, 09:21 PM
#352
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: A319 Left
Posts: 74
I'm not sure you totally understand how this works. They are not going to furlough only to recall a month later. Once they furlough and downgrade then there is a massive amount of training that needs to take place. Re-upgrading will again require a lot of training. Also current holiday bookings are half or less what we “need.”
4th of July cancels we’re a communication error between crew planning and marketing. Not a true lack of crews.
4th of July cancels we’re a communication error between crew planning and marketing. Not a true lack of crews.
within 2 years requires a practice sim, a PC and an RGS base month reset. Full program after 2 years. Not nothing, but not super intensive unless you are trying to bring back hundreds at once. If you recall or upgrade prior to landing currency and sim grace month expiring I think it can happen pretty much instantly.
08-20-2020, 02:48 AM
#353
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 465
within 2 years requires a practice sim, a PC and an RGS base month reset. Full program after 2 years. Not nothing, but not super intensive unless you are trying to bring back hundreds at once. If you recall or upgrade prior to landing currency and sim grace month expiring I think it can happen pretty much instantly.
08-20-2020, 05:25 AM
#355
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 919
08-20-2020, 05:27 AM
#356
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Bus CA
Posts: 658
I still believe there are three general outcomes;
A) As Advertised. No round 2 of CARES payroll support. The company puts 35% of its operation into hibernation for the winter. Union possibly inks a deal to bring furlough-ees into SIM/RGS to stay current.
B)They’re Liars. No round 2 of CARES payroll support, and the company furloughs an amount far less than advertised (even with voluntary leave options factored in) to operate the majority of our leased fleet of aircraft. They couldn’t afford to not swing for the fence if the government was going to hand out money again to the competition, but the welfare act is over and so is the charade. Moving forward picking up slim profits where only the ULCC model only can {tough in cheek}.
C) Most Likely, IMO. Round 2 of CARES payroll support comes through (late) and the company has already herded an impressive amount of pilots into voluntary leave programs; while still getting the full benefit of the CARES payroll assistance. No furloughs obviously. Long term leave come with the stipulation that the company can recall you early with a notice (30 days maybe). They choose to stick with mostly short leave 1-month COLAs so they can right size for the winter months that don’t include November and December.
A) As Advertised. No round 2 of CARES payroll support. The company puts 35% of its operation into hibernation for the winter. Union possibly inks a deal to bring furlough-ees into SIM/RGS to stay current.
B)They’re Liars. No round 2 of CARES payroll support, and the company furloughs an amount far less than advertised (even with voluntary leave options factored in) to operate the majority of our leased fleet of aircraft. They couldn’t afford to not swing for the fence if the government was going to hand out money again to the competition, but the welfare act is over and so is the charade. Moving forward picking up slim profits where only the ULCC model only can {tough in cheek}.
C) Most Likely, IMO. Round 2 of CARES payroll support comes through (late) and the company has already herded an impressive amount of pilots into voluntary leave programs; while still getting the full benefit of the CARES payroll assistance. No furloughs obviously. Long term leave come with the stipulation that the company can recall you early with a notice (30 days maybe). They choose to stick with mostly short leave 1-month COLAs so they can right size for the winter months that don’t include November and December.
08-20-2020, 06:02 AM
#357
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 224
I still believe there are three general outcomes;
A) As Advertised. No round 2 of CARES payroll support. The company puts 35% of its operation into hibernation for the winter. Union possibly inks a deal to bring furlough-ees into SIM/RGS to stay current.
B)They’re Liars. No round 2 of CARES payroll support, and the company furloughs an amount far less than advertised (even with voluntary leave options factored in) to operate the majority of our leased fleet of aircraft. They couldn’t afford to not swing for the fence if the government was going to hand out money again to the competition, but the welfare act is over and so is the charade. Moving forward picking up slim profits where only the ULCC model only can {tough in cheek}.
C) Most Likely, IMO. Round 2 of CARES payroll support comes through (late) and the company has already herded an impressive amount of pilots into voluntary leave programs; while still getting the full benefit of the CARES payroll assistance. No furloughs obviously. Long term leave come with the stipulation that the company can recall you early with a notice (30 days maybe). They choose to stick with mostly short leave 1-month COLAs so they can right size for the winter months that don’t include November and December.
A) As Advertised. No round 2 of CARES payroll support. The company puts 35% of its operation into hibernation for the winter. Union possibly inks a deal to bring furlough-ees into SIM/RGS to stay current.
B)They’re Liars. No round 2 of CARES payroll support, and the company furloughs an amount far less than advertised (even with voluntary leave options factored in) to operate the majority of our leased fleet of aircraft. They couldn’t afford to not swing for the fence if the government was going to hand out money again to the competition, but the welfare act is over and so is the charade. Moving forward picking up slim profits where only the ULCC model only can {tough in cheek}.
C) Most Likely, IMO. Round 2 of CARES payroll support comes through (late) and the company has already herded an impressive amount of pilots into voluntary leave programs; while still getting the full benefit of the CARES payroll assistance. No furloughs obviously. Long term leave come with the stipulation that the company can recall you early with a notice (30 days maybe). They choose to stick with mostly short leave 1-month COLAs so they can right size for the winter months that don’t include November and December.
I like your scenarios. I will have to ask though, what if CARES 2 comes and they decide not to take it? Why take government money that they may have to pay back if you can just furlough? Not that I'm saying I like that option, but it does seem very Frontier-esk. Being a single type fleet has it's advantages and disadvantages. In this scenario training costs are the double edge sword. It's great a cheap when the economy is going well, and great and cheap to do if we furlough and bring back. Not like at Delta where 1 displacement is 14 training events.
08-20-2020, 07:13 AM
#358
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,666
The extension of the money they are seeking isn't a loan, it's a grant. Provided the assistance offsets enough to meet the supposed cost of a continued prohibition of furlough, they have no reason not to take it.
Additionally, they already signed a letter of intent for one of the government loans under CARES 1.0, so it appears like they're ok with pursuing either avenue.
Additionally, they already signed a letter of intent for one of the government loans under CARES 1.0, so it appears like they're ok with pursuing either avenue.
08-20-2020, 07:15 AM
#359
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 224
The extension of the money they are seeking isn't a loan, it's a grant. Provided the assistance offsets enough to meet the supposed cost of a continued prohibition of furlough, they have no reason not to take it.
Additionally, they already signed a letter of intent for one of the government loans under CARES 1.0, so it appears like they're ok with pursuing either avenue.
Additionally, they already signed a letter of intent for one of the government loans under CARES 1.0, so it appears like they're ok with pursuing either avenue.
08-20-2020, 07:32 AM
#360
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
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