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-   -   F9 Financials (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/frontier/137523-f9-financials.html)

Aero1900 05-01-2022 09:29 AM

You really only need 200 additional pilots to staff 12 new airplanes. It's not going to be that difficult for Frontier to staff that growth. At least for now.

DumboDrop 05-01-2022 09:38 AM


Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3415052)
No, that's a CASM growth reduction. JB is planning to NET 700 new hires for 2022. Is 700/4500 more or less than 11%?

The company got out ahead of it's skis with how many flights they put out for sale, and are now having to reduce CASM growth, but not reducing hiring plans.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/04/26/jetblue-shares-fall-after-airline-cuts-2022-growth-plans.html

symbian simian 05-01-2022 10:04 AM


Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3414758)
You keep beating this ULCC growth drum. F9 and Spirit, and even B6 are slowing growth due to not getting enough pilots and enough pilots to stay. Sorry but that fast growth unicorn isn't going to happen.

Yes, but not in the way you think I do. I think if JB/NK merge there will be very little growth for years. BECAUSE of that, F9 will be able to expand more, and has airplane orders to do that. Because of that they will have less problems hiring than the JB/NK combo. Growth attracts people a lot more than stagnation. Yes JB rates are higher than F9, but upgrading in base and holding a line 5 years earlier makes up for it. Obviously results from the past don't guarantee the same in the future, but for a lot of the guys that I see leaving NK it is because they were expecting to hold a line in base as a captain in 3 years, just like I did. Obviously it will stop at some point, nothing can double every 3 years forever. But people right now are leaving because of lack of growth with no retirements to make up for it.
I am absolutely sure neither F9 or NK can grow like they were planning if both are around. If only one is around they can do that for longer, and attract people because of it. Just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it.

upup89 05-01-2022 10:26 AM


Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3415052)
JB is planning to NET 700 new hires for 2022. Is 700/4500 more or less than 11%?

And Blu is the only airline to say it won't be profitable in Q2. Sounds amazing.

Trowserchilli 05-01-2022 01:32 PM


Originally Posted by upup89 (Post 3415110)
And Blu is the only airline to say it won't be profitable in Q2. Sounds amazing.

Don't mind the troll. He's been running his mouth about F9 for years. His company is now at the bottom and trying to stay relevant.
For his sake and a lot of the other new egomaniacs over there I hope it goes through with NK. I feel bad for the NK guys. Terrible situation to sort out the seniority in MCO and FLL.
12yr upgrade to reserve at JetBlueballs in MCO and less than 7 at NK?

They're cutting their summer schedule due to lack of being able to handle their schedule, so hey, let's buy another airline and take on another couple hundred airframes, that'll save us.

Bluedriver 05-01-2022 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by Trowserchilli (Post 3415170)
Don't mind the troll. He's been running his mouth about F9 for years. His company is now at the bottom and trying to stay relevant.
For his sake and a lot of the other new egomaniacs over there I hope it goes through with NK. I feel bad for the NK guys. Terrible situation to sort out the seniority in MCO and FLL.
12yr upgrade to reserve at JetBlueballs in MCO and less than 7 at NK?

They're cutting their summer schedule due to lack of being able to handle their schedule, so hey, let's buy another airline and take on another couple hundred airframes, that'll save us.

Trying to stay relevant? JB has way more demand for it's product than it can staff. The airline is number 1 this year for customer satisfaction in the US. JB has large loyal customer bases in two large northeast cities that are virtually unobtainium to new entrants. JB came in and offered cash for an airline you were offering mostly stock for. Not relevant... That's funny.

Bluedriver 05-01-2022 02:08 PM


Originally Posted by symbian simian (Post 3415101)
Yes, but not in the way you think I do. I think if JB/NK merge there will be very little growth for years. BECAUSE of that, F9 will be able to expand more, and has airplane orders to do that. Because of that they will have less problems hiring than the JB/NK combo. Growth attracts people a lot more than stagnation. Yes JB rates are higher than F9, but upgrading in base and holding a line 5 years earlier makes up for it. Obviously results from the past don't guarantee the same in the future, but for a lot of the guys that I see leaving NK it is because they were expecting to hold a line in base as a captain in 3 years, just like I did. Obviously it will stop at some point, nothing can double every 3 years forever. But people right now are leaving because of lack of growth with no retirements to make up for it.
I am absolutely sure neither F9 or NK can grow like they were planning if both are around. If only one is around they can do that for longer, and attract people because of it. Just my opinion, and worth what you paid for it.

Seems a of lot dudes leaving the "fast growing" ULCCs. All airlines slow growth as they age. Can you point to a single one who hasn't?

Liger 05-01-2022 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3415194)
Seems a of lot dudes leaving the "fast growing" ULCCs. All airlines slow growth as they age. Can you point to a single one who hasn't?


Good ol super tool must have Sunday off to enlighten us with his vast amount of wisdom. Thank you Home Depot.

symbian simian 05-01-2022 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3415194)
Seems a of lot dudes leaving the "fast growing" ULCCs. All airlines slow growth as they age. Can you point to a single one who hasn't?

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Bluedriver 05-01-2022 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by symbian simian (Post 3415269)
Thank you for agreeing with me.

I think you and I agree on many things. I do not believe JB+NK will stagnate, unless the pilot shortage is so acute they have no choice. I believe they have every desire and intention to grow faster, if they can staff it. The demand for our product is definitely there. It's an open question as to whether management will do what it takes to staff the company, but we may just do it for them with an industry leading JCBA (if this even happens).

They are trying to net 15% growth in JB pilots this year, so definitely not stagnation. And JB+NK will also have considerable orders on hand.

Hopefully we all get an answer soon as to which way this train is gonna pull out of the station.


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