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Originally Posted by Aero1900
(Post 3532145)
You're going to hate this answer.
If you hate the way the place is run that much, you should go work somewhere else. This is a ULCC now. Been that way for about 10 years now. It is what it is. It's a ULCC man.... Management teams come and go. I think Biffle and the Boys are team number 7. I'm going to be here long after they are gone. We might stay a sh*tty ULCC for another 30 years, we may not. We might merge, we might totally change. Who knows. I don't run the airline. I don't make customer service decisions. I fly the plane, get paid and go home to my family. I try to make the most positive impact possible at work. I take care of my crew and passengers the best I can but that's it. I don't run the airline. I would like to refer you to my answer to you earlier in the Nov 28th class thread Part of "taking care of your crew" should include taking care of your fellow airmen. This includes pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits. Both during contract negotiations and outside of official negotiations. Hiding those significant issues and deficiencies, sweeping them under the rug, hiding them in a closet, and/or minimizing them publicly in the way you continually do is the opposite of "taking care of your crew (fellow airmen)". It's clear by your many responses that your first and nearly only priority is to continue the growth of the airline, even if it means accepting the current conditions for longer, or even forever (relatively speaking), if that's what it takes to keep people coming to F9, even if they come under false pretenses (because you continually minimize and redirect legitimate concerns). Anyhow, we've had this conversation before, and you learn nothing from it, but judging by the reactions from many of your coworkers, I'm not the only one who clearly sees it. I'm glad you are not in my seniority list, because I would clearly consider you an enemy of the group when it comes to pushing for a better contract, and better contract compliance. But don't worry, we have some of "you" anyway. |
Originally Posted by Aero1900
(Post 3532516)
Here's a different view on this whole thing:
Clearly, the company is willing to pay pilots to grow this airline. In just the last 12 months the company has increased first year pay twice, started paying for hotels and now offering a 35k signing bonus. They want to grow the airline and they clearly aren't going to let increasing pilot costs stop them. |
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
(Post 3532643)
Part of "taking care of your crew" should include taking care of your fellow airmen. This includes pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits. Both during contract negotiations and outside of official negotiations. Hiding those significant issues and deficiencies, sweeping them under the rug, hiding them in a closet, and/or minimizing them publicly in the way you continually do is the opposite of "taking care of your crew (fellow airmen)".
It's clear by your many responses that your first and nearly only priority is to continue the growth of the airline, even if it means accepting the current conditions for longer, or even forever (relatively speaking), if that's what it takes to keep people coming to F9, even if they come under false pretenses (because you continually minimize and redirect legitimate concerns). Anyhow, we've had this conversation before, and you learn nothing from it, but judging by the reactions from many of your coworkers, I'm not the only one who clearly sees it. I'm glad you are not in my seniority list, because I would clearly consider you an enemy of the group when it comes to pushing for a better contract, and better contract compliance. But don't worry, we have some of "you" anyway. |
Wow, surprise surprise. Another self righteous post from Bluedriver.
Good grief man, there are management issues and pilot group issues. Most everybody here complains about management issues. We can kick and scream all we want about their decisions, but in the end the pilot group can do very little to change their company decisions. It might be a surprise to you but at Frontier we are pilots too, and guess what, like other pilots we want the things WE can control to improve. As in a better contract and all the things you listed. Remember our picket events from the last negotiation round, huge turnouts for our size. Guess what, Aero was there. So let’s dial back self righteous and pretentious insults, you have no idea what goes on at Frontier. Reading mostly BS on apc and forming an opinion does very little. We will get a better contract this next go around, I might dare say it just might be better than yours. |
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
(Post 3532643)
Part of "taking care of your crew" should include taking care of your fellow airmen. This includes pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits. Both during contract negotiations and outside of official negotiations. Hiding those significant issues and deficiencies, sweeping them under the rug, hiding them in a closet, and/or minimizing them publicly in the way you continually do is the opposite of "taking care of your crew (fellow airmen)".
It's clear by your many responses that your first and nearly only priority is to continue the growth of the airline, even if it means accepting the current conditions for longer, or even forever (relatively speaking), if that's what it takes to keep people coming to F9, even if they come under false pretenses (because you continually minimize and redirect legitimate concerns). Anyhow, we've had this conversation before, and you learn nothing from it, but judging by the reactions from many of your coworkers, I'm not the only one who clearly sees it. I'm glad you are not in my seniority list, because I would clearly consider you an enemy of the group when it comes to pushing for a better contract, and better contract compliance. But don't worry, we have some of "you" anyway. |
Originally Posted by upup89
(Post 3532662)
How's the merger going? I saw it got $600 million more expensive for Jetblue this morning.
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver
(Post 3532671)
As I understand it, the 600m is a refinance of debt that was coming due.
https://simpleflying.com/spirit-airlines-raise-600-million-new-debt/ Maybe they are about to get a big raise and raise the industry to a new standard. Maybe not. |
Originally Posted by SFA320
(Post 3532653)
Wow, surprise surprise. Another self righteous post from Bluedriver.
Good grief man, there are management issues and pilot group issues. Most everybody here complains about management issues. We can kick and scream all we want about their decisions, but in the end the pilot group can do very little to change their company decisions. It might be a surprise to you but at Frontier we are pilots too, and guess what, like other pilots we want the things WE can control to improve. As in a better contract and all the things you listed. Remember our picket events from the last negotiation round, huge turnouts for our size. Guess what, Aero was there. So let’s dial back self righteous and pretentious insults, you have no idea what goes on at Frontier. Reading mostly BS on apc and forming an opinion does very little. We will get a better contract this next go around, I might dare say it just might be better than yours. I didn't SAY F9 was an F-show. I said (paraphrasing) that YOUR OWN guys are bringing up concerns, and Aero continually dismisses them. Which YOUR GUY said just as much within the last few pages, yet you didn't correct him. In the end, just as before, your opinion of me matters zero. And your opinion of me in this case is based on a misreading of my post and intentions. I was in NO WAY making a personal disparaging characterization of your airline. I only referenced the legitimate concerns or YOUR OWN PILOT GROUP. Your misreading and mischaracterization of my post says everything about you and your insecurities and nothing about me. I hope you can get an amazing contract. Whether it's better than ours likely depends on whether you are taking about our 4 year old CBA or our future new CBA... |
Originally Posted by Stayontarget
(Post 3532692)
“The debt is intended to pay down $155 million of debt and have more cash on hand with an uncertain 2023. According to Airline Weekly, this is after Spirit Airlines took out $850 million in loyalty program-secured debt in September 2020.”
https://simpleflying.com/spirit-airlines-raise-600-million-new-debt/ Maybe they are about to get a big raise and raise the industry to a new standard. Maybe not. |
Originally Posted by Stayontarget
(Post 3532692)
“The debt is intended to pay down $155 million of debt and have more cash on hand with an uncertain 2023. According to Airline Weekly, this is after Spirit Airlines took out $850 million in loyalty program-secured debt in September 2020.”
https://simpleflying.com/spirit-airlines-raise-600-million-new-debt/ Maybe they are about to get a big raise and raise the industry to a new standard. Maybe not. |
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