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I do want to add this though. The base closures, section 19s and Managements general neglect of our group should not be dismissed. However, if you want to leave an airline because management is mean you have another thing coming (sooner or later) at your next airline. I believe in our group and we will make things better
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Originally Posted by BufordT Justice
(Post 3573832)
While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, it’s important to point out that this portion isn’t mutually exclusive. Lobbying to be paid an industry standard for the equipment we fly is a valid purpose, and it doesn’t interfere with your home life. This isn’t and shouldn’t be an either/or topic.
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Originally Posted by Pinkpanther23
(Post 3573645)
Man reading in these forums can lead to depression goodness. F9 isn't bad take the bonus………...#RantOver
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Originally Posted by Pinkpanther23
(Post 3573645)
Man reading in these forums can lead to depression goodness. F9 isn't bad take the bonus fly a ton crews are pretty awesome. All the crying from the senior citizens in here is because it's all about back in their day. I've been here 2 years it's been pretty smooth. I generally have 0 issue at the company. It's still a business and as long as you work for someone else of course you'll b***h about something. but some of you on here, if you hate it so much Just leave no one is stopping you. All this we should make more money etc crying is so ridiculous. Yeah you can make more but I'd rather come home to a wife that still loves me and kids who love me. Idk maybe my priorities are different. But the whiners please quit and go away. I hear it in the flight deck sometimes I simply say, just leave no one is stopping you go to Delta, Unitee etc like keep you BS negativity to yourself. And when that happens it's well "ahhh I don't wanna commute or start over," or the " I'll just wait and see what we do with our contract" it's like bro you're such a crying b***h I'm tired of the pessimistic rants. Listen if you're a new hire just take the money, all the nay sayers are salty we don't have a contract yet. Is it coming I'm sure. Could you make good money here yes I've done it many times. Learn the aircraft and fly it well, go to decent places and take care of yourself and family. You work for a company that wants to use you to make profit, so use the company it's simple take your bonus get typed, get experience if you wanna leave cool leave. If not just stick it out make 200k+ a year is it delta no but I rather deal with the cool ppl here than some whiny captain complaining about where's my hat. Sorry this is long winded. But for better words it's not so bad here. I enjoy it. Is it sexy meh idc the checks are good QOL is good and ppl are generally cool. Take that for what it's worth than listening to some 8 year captain cry about why he's not more rich like bro go love on your wife before someone else does.#RantOver
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Thought I would post in here about what I know about the sign-on 'bonus'. I interviewed yesterday in MIA and they tried to clarify it. It is not mandatory and you can choose whether or not you accept it when they send you the CJO/class date. 3 years, not pro-rated, taxed as a bonus. If you leave early, you have to pay it back plus interest, if you stay, then no interest is due. They are saying it isn't a loan which I personally think is wrong considering interest is required when/if paying it back (like any loan). Hope this clarifies it for some people inquiring.
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Thanks for the update, rumors we're floating around of the bonus now being mandatory.
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Originally Posted by citationxtango
(Post 3575584)
Thought I would post in here about what I know about the sign-on 'bonus'. I interviewed yesterday in MIA and they tried to clarify it. It is not mandatory and you can choose whether or not you accept it when they send you the CJO/class date. 3 years, not pro-rated, taxed as a bonus. If you leave early, you have to pay it back plus interest, if you stay, then no interest is due. They are saying it isn't a loan which I personally think is wrong considering interest is required when/if paying it back (like any loan). Hope this clarifies it for some people inquiring.
You’d better hold onto it though. Anyone departing early pays it back in full (as you said, not prorated). You’ll also pay the interest which has been accruing against your “not a loan.” obviously the hope is that some might spend it all, try to leave, and can’t afford to pay back $50K immediately. Now let’s say you stick around for at least 36 months. Great! Now you’re taxed on it (the April following the 3 year mark, when you do taxes). You’ll be taxed on not just the $50k, but the $50k + 36 months of interest. Either way you’re liable for all of it, whether it’s paying back to F9 or reporting it as earned income to the IRS; probably will be about $57,000 when it matures. $35K was a big deal to a lot of people in my class. $50K is certainly a big chunk of money. But it sounds like they’re still not being super clear about all this, assuming they even understand it yet (no one did, when it got rolled out). You’ll sign a 3 year promissory note for $50K with 4.x% interest at least. You’ll get the whole lump sum, no taxes will be taken out and it won’t be reported to the IRS for a while. Be smart with the money. Many in my class researched options such as HYSA and CDs, a few threw them into stocks (wouldn’t recommend). To at least try and make something while the money sits. |
The union needs to get involved because an unprecedented violation of the CBA is being set. This is not a bonus. F9 simply has decided to partially pay new hires up front for 3 years of service to rendered while working under the CBA. Instead of increasing compensation for the entire pilot group, F9 will just increase the loan amount to fill classes. Even if the loan is raised to 300k, F9 will still find it more cost effective. This is a long term game plan.
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Originally Posted by brocklee9000
(Post 3575881)
It absolutely is a loan though. You will be offered a promissory note at whatever the current interest rate is. Started around 4.1% and it’s up to about 4.5% from a friend in the upcoming class. Also it was explained to us (my class was the first to get the offer) that it was taxed as normal income, deferred. It got murky because - like everything else IRS related - it’s confusing. It won’t be reported till the end of the 3 year period. You’ll receive the full lump sum immediately, $50K for upcoming groups.
You’d better hold onto it though. Anyone departing early pays it back in full (as you said, not prorated). You’ll also pay the interest which has been accruing against your “not a loan.” obviously the hope is that some might spend it all, try to leave, and can’t afford to pay back $50K immediately. Now let’s say you stick around for at least 36 months. Great! Now you’re taxed on it (the April following the 3 year mark, when you do taxes). You’ll be taxed on not just the $50k, but the $50k + 36 months of interest. Either way you’re liable for all of it, whether it’s paying back to F9 or reporting it as earned income to the IRS; probably will be about $57,000 when it matures. $35K was a big deal to a lot of people in my class. $50K is certainly a big chunk of money. But it sounds like they’re still not being super clear about all this, assuming they even understand it yet (no one did, when it got rolled out). You’ll sign a 3 year promissory note for $50K with 4.x% interest at least. You’ll get the whole lump sum, no taxes will be taken out and it won’t be reported to the IRS for a while. Be smart with the money. Many in my class researched options such as HYSA and CDs, a few threw them into stocks (wouldn’t recommend). To at least try and make something while the money sits. |
Originally Posted by fivebyfive
(Post 3575908)
The union needs to get involved because an unprecedented violation of the CBA is being set. This is not a bonus. F9 simply has decided to partially pay new hires up front for 3 years of service to rendered while working under the CBA. Instead of increasing compensation for the entire pilot group, F9 will just increase the loan amount to fill classes. Even if the loan is raised to 300k, F9 will still find it more cost effective. This is a long term game plan.
Fellow pilots, Recently, the company introduced its latest scheme to attract pilots and slow attrition at Frontier by offering $35,000 “signing bonuses” attached to a three- year employment commitment. ALPA opposes this ploy, as we believe that our airline’s inability to attract and retain pilots stems from a larger cultural problem that can only be addressed by an overhaul of management’s approach to labor relations. However, we feel it appropriate to leave the systemic problems aside for the moment and address just the bonus program. First, pilots should be made aware of how the program was launched. Based on the rollout we are not certain management considered U.S. tax law when designing the program, which requires that participants sign a $35,000 promissory note. In fact, the first eligible new hires were still in ground school when the company demanded that they sign amended documents changing the terms of the agreement. Pilots were informed that they would now be charged interest on their “bonus” at a rate of 4.1%. In addition, each new hire pilot who accepts the funds will be charged income taxes on the $35,000 once their three- year commitment is complete and the promissory note is forgiven. Finally, any pilot who accepts this money and does not fulfill their obligation will not benefit from any proration of amount owed to the company. More relevant to our current pilot group, the bonus program clearly violates Section 3.R of the CBA by offering a bonus to new hires, excluding all other Frontier pilots on the seniority list. Section 3.R. provides that, “Pilots of Frontier Airlines, Inc. shall participate in any Discretionary Bonus Program on the same terms and conditions of other non-management employees.” The unambiguous intent of this provision is for all pilots to be included in all bonus offerings that are provided to any employees of Frontier. The seemingly clever approach of giving a bonus in this way is merely an attempt to end-run around our CBA. Furthermore, the bonus program violates the contract by circumventing LOA 4. This LOA, negotiated between Frontier and ALPA in 2019, allows the company to raise first-year hourly rates to 98.5% of second-year hourly rates. The intent of LOA 4 was to give the company the ability to attract pilots with increased pay in a manner that complies with the CBA. However, instead of utilizing the contractual mechanism already available to them within LOA 4, they chose to proceed in a manner that is not contractually compliant. Notably, the company Air Line Pilots Association, International www.alpa.org To update your Standard Mailings/E-Mail Distribution Lists preferences click here. If you wish to Unsubscribe please use the unsubscribe link. has chosen not to raise new hire pay to the levels agreed to by ALPA under the LOA. Frontier pilots flying the line are the backbone of this company, and the safe, efficient, and profitable operation of this airline falls squarely upon our shoulders. Management’s choice to flout our contract and dangle a one-time cash payment to entice new pilots while ignoring those already wearing a Frontier uniform is short-sighted and will do nothing to improve retention in this historic job market. ALPA has filed an Association grievance challenging the bonus program. We continue to object to management’s attempts to gut the protections afforded by our CBA and will keep the pilot group updated as the process unfolds. As always, your continued professionalism will allow this pilot group to rise above. If you have any questions, please contact your elected representatives or send us a DART. In unity, FFT ME |
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