Frontier vs Regional
05-03-2023 | 08:08 PM
#21
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Even though I'm sure this is a mgt troll tossing out a new thread to stir up emotions / attract attention, I'll bite (mostly because it's the perfect question to allow me the audience for the description below)...
The major airlines are just that - major. They sell their own tickets and plan their own routes. They set prices and control schedules. They are the MAJORS.
If the airlines were a baseball league,
The Big Three
Delta is the Yankees. the largest market and smarter than you. Pay the most and proud of it. Kinda snooty (but they can be). Definitely conservative and definitely well run and organized. Great contract, great support network, upper echelon hotels and overnights and leads most customer service depts in on time, baggage handling, etc. Very good outlook for the future. Make sure you fly them on bobblehead night (when commuting)...
United is the Dodgers. Another big market team that so wants to be the largest. Some parts are Texas (conservative) and some parts are Denver (c'mon bro let's just all blow trees and get along). Is the direct sum of what used to be Continental (a pretty good airline) and United (a pretty bad one). CEO now is a guy who once attended Air Force pilot training then quit (looks like he made the right choice) and despite trying to appeal to the pilots is really a bean counter. Ok job running the company but sneaking suspicion that sooner or later, the he will screw it up and drive the company to bankruptcy again. Existing contract is OK/pay is good. Lots of clubhouse discord right now but overall, a great franchise to land. Next contract will decide which type of franchise it will be going forward - fiscally conservative or risk taking and ambitious. Not a bad commute.
American is the Miami Marlins and Texas Rangers combined. Big (bigger than even the Yankees), brash, loud and somewhat reckless. Big market teams w/ middle market management and overshadowed by other local interests. Lots of debt but is so big and loud, they won't be allowed to fail. Another decent landing spot for a pilot but not as well run as it should be. Could steal a championship or two in a few categories but won't ever be tops in all for a sustained period of time due to past CEO decisions that have it well debt ridden. In about 15 years when hiring slows, the bottom of the list will hate it. Also, when trying to commute, the flight crew/FAs are generally pretty cool but the gate agents are notorious for being unhelpful.
The Other Big
Southwest is like Oakland Athletics. Small market but very smart/frugal. "Moneyball" at it's best but with a slight southern charm and DEFINTELY on top of fan appreciation. Used to be a great place to land but shaky now due to being saturated in places and no real plan to expand routes. Only flies within narrowbody flight range. Not going to ever win the championship but definitely will take wins from the major market teams and be fine with that. Way too dependent on Boeing (who stepped on themselves due to their own internal mgt buffoonery). Contract pretty good but not as good as the Yankees. Being hire here means you'll be on the bench for a while and bat 9th for a LONG time. Absolutely BEST COMMUTE but planes are often very packed (and the jumpseat is torture).
The Rest
Jet Blue is definitely the Boston Red Sox. Hates the Yankees but can be a player at times. The quintessential "tweener" airline as in not quite big 4 and not quite LCC. Looking to make whatever moves it thinks can help it be a major player but spends too much and just doesn't have the following to be big time. Still on the outside pay wise. Merging w/ Spirit to make it 5th largest by a wide margin (not sure really what that will do for it). Another good commute.
Spirit is the Detroit Tigers who moved to Florida. Medium/small market but decent management, a decent product and a decent strategy. Shrugs its shoulders at its fans but does appreciate them somewhat. Contract and pay needs work. Bought by Jet Blue so it'll be interesting to see how that route structure merges (let alone the SIL). Was a trucking company that now flies. Commute is decent but lots of announcements (especially about credit card sales).
Frontier is definitely the Colorado Rockies. In a big market but very very content being small. Used to be a decent team offering a quality product at a fair price w/ decent customer service. Got bought and now hates its fans but loves its fans money. Wants to expand just enough to stay valid (that is, above the best regional) and make money. Championships don't matter - just ticket, jersey (baggage) and hot dog (snacks on board) sales. Contract work rules are surprisingly OK but horrible in the pay department w/ the CEO trying desperately to keep it that way. Not really an airline but an investment firm that happens to fly. Commuting in the JS is probably more comfortable as the passenger seat is horrible. And, like Spirit, lots of annoying announcements.
Sun Country is the new Detroit Tigers. All Detroit. Love the people, hard nosed lifestyle and the misery that comes with it. Pay is Yankee like but contract - not so much. Still, a better place than most (but only if you live in Detroit - or Canada). Commute is good.
Allegiant is Las Vegas. Definitely middle market with flash/pizzazz. Not just an airline but an entertainment experience. Just updated their inventory (much like the Sahara changing its name and getting new carpet and paint). Contract is Spirit/Frontier like - not really that great. Niche airline w/ NO overnights but tons of bases. Commute decent.
The Minor League
The BEST regional - debatable about who that is - is like a good AA team. Great in support of the major franchise but wouldn't be able to survive w/o them. Susceptible to having the talent plundered by ANY major at any time and some are beholden to the major that if there were ever a need, pilots from the major parent could be sent down for "assignment." Pay is much less overall (despite 1st yr FO pay and bonuses) and contract provisions are usually much less than most majors. Commutes are almost always a JOY if you can get a seat in the back. CRJ jumpseats are worse than the 73.
So take your pick.
The major airlines are just that - major. They sell their own tickets and plan their own routes. They set prices and control schedules. They are the MAJORS.
If the airlines were a baseball league,
The Big Three
Delta is the Yankees. the largest market and smarter than you. Pay the most and proud of it. Kinda snooty (but they can be). Definitely conservative and definitely well run and organized. Great contract, great support network, upper echelon hotels and overnights and leads most customer service depts in on time, baggage handling, etc. Very good outlook for the future. Make sure you fly them on bobblehead night (when commuting)...
United is the Dodgers. Another big market team that so wants to be the largest. Some parts are Texas (conservative) and some parts are Denver (c'mon bro let's just all blow trees and get along). Is the direct sum of what used to be Continental (a pretty good airline) and United (a pretty bad one). CEO now is a guy who once attended Air Force pilot training then quit (looks like he made the right choice) and despite trying to appeal to the pilots is really a bean counter. Ok job running the company but sneaking suspicion that sooner or later, the he will screw it up and drive the company to bankruptcy again. Existing contract is OK/pay is good. Lots of clubhouse discord right now but overall, a great franchise to land. Next contract will decide which type of franchise it will be going forward - fiscally conservative or risk taking and ambitious. Not a bad commute.
American is the Miami Marlins and Texas Rangers combined. Big (bigger than even the Yankees), brash, loud and somewhat reckless. Big market teams w/ middle market management and overshadowed by other local interests. Lots of debt but is so big and loud, they won't be allowed to fail. Another decent landing spot for a pilot but not as well run as it should be. Could steal a championship or two in a few categories but won't ever be tops in all for a sustained period of time due to past CEO decisions that have it well debt ridden. In about 15 years when hiring slows, the bottom of the list will hate it. Also, when trying to commute, the flight crew/FAs are generally pretty cool but the gate agents are notorious for being unhelpful.
The Other Big
Southwest is like Oakland Athletics. Small market but very smart/frugal. "Moneyball" at it's best but with a slight southern charm and DEFINTELY on top of fan appreciation. Used to be a great place to land but shaky now due to being saturated in places and no real plan to expand routes. Only flies within narrowbody flight range. Not going to ever win the championship but definitely will take wins from the major market teams and be fine with that. Way too dependent on Boeing (who stepped on themselves due to their own internal mgt buffoonery). Contract pretty good but not as good as the Yankees. Being hire here means you'll be on the bench for a while and bat 9th for a LONG time. Absolutely BEST COMMUTE but planes are often very packed (and the jumpseat is torture).
The Rest
Jet Blue is definitely the Boston Red Sox. Hates the Yankees but can be a player at times. The quintessential "tweener" airline as in not quite big 4 and not quite LCC. Looking to make whatever moves it thinks can help it be a major player but spends too much and just doesn't have the following to be big time. Still on the outside pay wise. Merging w/ Spirit to make it 5th largest by a wide margin (not sure really what that will do for it). Another good commute.
Spirit is the Detroit Tigers who moved to Florida. Medium/small market but decent management, a decent product and a decent strategy. Shrugs its shoulders at its fans but does appreciate them somewhat. Contract and pay needs work. Bought by Jet Blue so it'll be interesting to see how that route structure merges (let alone the SIL). Was a trucking company that now flies. Commute is decent but lots of announcements (especially about credit card sales).
Frontier is definitely the Colorado Rockies. In a big market but very very content being small. Used to be a decent team offering a quality product at a fair price w/ decent customer service. Got bought and now hates its fans but loves its fans money. Wants to expand just enough to stay valid (that is, above the best regional) and make money. Championships don't matter - just ticket, jersey (baggage) and hot dog (snacks on board) sales. Contract work rules are surprisingly OK but horrible in the pay department w/ the CEO trying desperately to keep it that way. Not really an airline but an investment firm that happens to fly. Commuting in the JS is probably more comfortable as the passenger seat is horrible. And, like Spirit, lots of annoying announcements.
Sun Country is the new Detroit Tigers. All Detroit. Love the people, hard nosed lifestyle and the misery that comes with it. Pay is Yankee like but contract - not so much. Still, a better place than most (but only if you live in Detroit - or Canada). Commute is good.
Allegiant is Las Vegas. Definitely middle market with flash/pizzazz. Not just an airline but an entertainment experience. Just updated their inventory (much like the Sahara changing its name and getting new carpet and paint). Contract is Spirit/Frontier like - not really that great. Niche airline w/ NO overnights but tons of bases. Commute decent.
The Minor League
The BEST regional - debatable about who that is - is like a good AA team. Great in support of the major franchise but wouldn't be able to survive w/o them. Susceptible to having the talent plundered by ANY major at any time and some are beholden to the major that if there were ever a need, pilots from the major parent could be sent down for "assignment." Pay is much less overall (despite 1st yr FO pay and bonuses) and contract provisions are usually much less than most majors. Commutes are almost always a JOY if you can get a seat in the back. CRJ jumpseats are worse than the 73.
So take your pick.
05-10-2023 | 06:18 AM
#23
Banned
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 668
Likes: 1
this shouldnt even be a question.
He should get to F9 at all costs over a regional any day of the week. Even if the F9 class was a month behind EDVs. Retiring here would be heaps better than sitting at a regional till you "hopefully" get to go somewhere else.
He might get an early spot if someone leaves also, my buddy got a month early.
He should get to F9 at all costs over a regional any day of the week. Even if the F9 class was a month behind EDVs. Retiring here would be heaps better than sitting at a regional till you "hopefully" get to go somewhere else.
He might get an early spot if someone leaves also, my buddy got a month early.
05-10-2023 | 07:00 AM
#24
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 98
go to EDV and have a guaranteed flow to Delta in 5-7 years?? Or do 2 years there and go to AA or UA. That’s a no brainer. Frontier has trash flight benefits and customer service, you’ll be buying flights on other carriers your whole life. Delta career earnings are the best, if it takes 5 years to get there it’s better than being at Frontier your whole career
05-10-2023 | 07:01 AM
#25
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,159
Likes: 44
From: 737 CA
go to EDV and have a guaranteed flow to Delta in 5-7 years?? Or do 2 years there and go to AA or UA. That’s a no brainer. Frontier has trash flight benefits and customer service, you’ll be buying flights on other carriers your whole life. Delta career earnings are the best, if it takes 5 years to get there it’s better than being at Frontier your whole career
Anyone who advocates for hanging out at a regional is either short sighted or lacks experience. We live in amazing times right now as far as the hiring environment goes. Don’t let it pass you by. Get as high up on the career food chain as you can as fast as you can. Eventually things will settle down (perhaps abruptly) and you may find yourself spending a long time at whatever airline you are at. Thousands of pilots have found themselves retiring off of RJs due to unfortunate position and timing. Don’t be one of those people.
Frontier, Spirit, JetBlue… They are all major airlines. Do they carry the same prestige as flying for a legacy airline? Of course not, but they are major airlines and someplace you could comfortably spend a career. Get out of the regionals asap. If you can avoid them all together, even better! I wish I had those kind of opportunities when I was coming up the ladder. 1500 hours barely qualified someone to fly cancelled checks in a single engine Cessna back then. Seize what you can in this environment!
Signed: A former Frontier captain who left for other pastures, but still looks fondly on their time there and would recommend it to others.
05-10-2023 | 07:06 AM
#26
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,159
Likes: 44
From: 737 CA
Exactly. Making career choices based on flight benefits is ridiculous. I’m going to guess Mr./Ms. Salt has never tried to nonrev with a family of 5. Flight benefits may be fine when you’re young and single, but they become increasingly useless as life progresses. I’m personally much happier buying my family tickets, showing up on time for boarding, sitting in my seat, and relaxing the entire flight without a single soul knowing I’m an airline pilot.
05-10-2023 | 07:16 AM
#27
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 98
Exactly. Making career choices based on flight benefits is ridiculous. I’m going to guess Mr./Ms. Salt has never tried to nonrev with a family of 5. Flight benefits may be fine when you’re young and single, but they become increasingly useless as life progresses. I’m personally much happier buying my family tickets, showing up on time for boarding, sitting in my seat, and relaxing the entire flight without a single soul knowing I’m an airline pilot.
Haha absolutely. I was going add to my post about even just trying to commute on a jumpseat for myself can be stressful much less trying to get my family on an airplane with a pass. No way. I make too much money to do that.
05-10-2023 | 07:48 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
go to EDV and have a guaranteed flow to Delta in 5-7 years?? Or do 2 years there and go to AA or UA. That’s a no brainer. Frontier has trash flight benefits and customer service, you’ll be buying flights on other carriers your whole life. Delta career earnings are the best, if it takes 5 years to get there it’s better than being at Frontier your whole career
05-10-2023 | 10:53 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Happy
I never know if these threads are for real or not. Sure bud, current regional pay scales are here to stay and the music won’t stop. I complain but I do it in an Airbus flying 2 legs. If you actually have to ask is it’s probably best if you pick a regional.
Edit if you are happy flying at your regional than that’s good ! But if you are still in the beginning stages of your career ask yourself where you would rather be if the music stops.
Edit if you are happy flying at your regional than that’s good ! But if you are still in the beginning stages of your career ask yourself where you would rather be if the music stops.
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