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Originally Posted by DrMantisTobogan
(Post 3676132)
I am a 2016 hire and I was here for the last round of negotiations. I remember how contentious it got. I have no misconceptions that this round will go any smoother.
Since we signed our last CBA though I thought this was my career airline. I live in base and enjoy an overall nice QOL. IF all of the deliveries show up as advertised then, yes the seniority gains look very promising. But I can’t shake the gnawing feeling that F9’s trajectory is to fully embrace the regional airline management style. F9’s management has maybe the most hostile posturing of any current airline in the US. It has finally reached the point for me though that I have applied at the legacy carriers. This management group makes me think it’s too risky for my future to stay and try and ride out the growth in seniority. Leaving to start at the bottom of a legacy feels like the safer long term move. There are so many “death by a thousand cuts” anecdotes on these forums that are very accurate that have inched me closer and closer to applying elsewhere. However the the final straw for me was BL’s video last week talking about concessionary language for our pilot group. In an unprecedented hiring wave for pilots, where we’ve never seen such strong contractual gains as an industry, this horse’s arrse has the nerve to talk directly to the pilot group and tell us that he needs concessionary language so that “override pay rewards more block time flown”. Sorry for the long winded post but I’ve reached the point where the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. I never thought I’d reach this point. Driving to work, enjoying a flexible schedule (which the company wants to reduce flexibility), and trying to capitalize on soft pay provisions in our CBA so that I might earn CLOSE to what my legacy peers earn is too risky for me to stay. If I stay here and this place fully becomes a ULCC “regional” I will have missed my opportunity elsewhere. Coming to F9 from a regional airline or in lieu of a regional makes sense. I would just encourage people not to get too comfortable while you’re here like I did. I’ve already missed out on huge seniority gains by staying here hoping this place would become something it’s not. PS this switch from Jeppesen to Lido charts feels like icing on the cake. Great post and I’m in the same boat as you. I’ve become desensitized working here. I won’t say I don’t care but I can only do so much. I fly with a lot of new guys in our most junior FO base and I write a lot of Letters of recommendation for them. After you experience our turd show it’s hard to stay. I had about 40 flights in July with 5 being on time . I consider myself somewhat of a LIDO expert now as I’ve used it exclusively for my Last 3 pairings, I use the new guys as my tutor! Hope I don’t have to do a missed approach though or figure out the approach lights! I was given the option of a preferred runway the other day but we didn’t think we could brief it fast enough . So took an extra 15 minutes taxiing. I can’t wait to see the operational performance email the day after LIDO goes live. I know AERO - it’s just a chart guys….. |
Originally Posted by madmax757
(Post 3676187)
I know AERO - it’s just a chart guys…..
I've been using Lido exclusively for a while now. I don't mind the charts at all. They don't give me any heartburn and that's coming from a lazy guy. So far I've really only run into one issue where I went back to my Jepps. The Lido chart for BQN didn't have San Juan Center frequency listed in a logical place and we had to get a clearance on the ground as the tower was closed. Didn't even have to file an asap though! Also, I could totally do a missed approach with my Lido charts! |
I will say I haven't been too concerned about earnings calls.... But considering almost every airline is recording record profits this past quarter. I really hope we are doing well. Maybe it will start to shake up the management tree if there isn't some good performance.
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Originally Posted by DrMantisTobogan
(Post 3676132)
I am a 2016 hire and I was here for the last round of negotiations. I remember how contentious it got. I have no misconceptions that this round will go any smoother.
Since we signed our last CBA though I thought this was my career airline. I live in base and enjoy an overall nice QOL. IF all of the deliveries show up as advertised then, yes the seniority gains look very promising. But I can’t shake the gnawing feeling that F9’s trajectory is to fully embrace the regional airline management style. F9’s management has maybe the most hostile posturing of any current airline in the US. It has finally reached the point for me though that I have applied at the legacy carriers. This management group makes me think it’s too risky for my future to stay and try and ride out the growth in seniority. Leaving to start at the bottom of a legacy feels like the safer long term move. There are so many “death by a thousand cuts” anecdotes on these forums that are very accurate that have inched me closer and closer to applying elsewhere. However the the final straw for me was BL’s video last week talking about concessionary language for our pilot group. In an unprecedented hiring wave for pilots, where we’ve never seen such strong contractual gains as an industry, this horse’s arrse has the nerve to talk directly to the pilot group and tell us that he needs concessionary language so that “override pay rewards more block time flown”. Sorry for the long winded post but I’ve reached the point where the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. I never thought I’d reach this point. Driving to work, enjoying a flexible schedule (which the company wants to reduce flexibility), and trying to capitalize on soft pay provisions in our CBA so that I might earn CLOSE to what my legacy peers earn is too risky for me to stay. If I stay here and this place fully becomes a ULCC “regional” I will have missed my opportunity elsewhere. Coming to F9 from a regional airline or in lieu of a regional makes sense. I would just encourage people not to get too comfortable while you’re here like I did. I’ve already missed out on huge seniority gains by staying here hoping this place would become something it’s not. PS this switch from Jeppesen to Lido charts feels like icing on the cake. |
Originally Posted by CGLimits
(Post 3675015)
If I may….the first thing I did as soon as I saw the email with the video link was to delete it. Union busting 101…do not watch those videos, they are designed to divide and conquer the pilot group.
Let the union speak for us and let the union inform us. |
Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
(Post 3676299)
This is spot on as well. Just another BL bad idea designed to create division. He’s looking for us to start arguing about what to give up. The problem is we’re not in the same negotiating environment as last time. At all. It won’t work.
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Originally Posted by Mooneyguy
(Post 3676371)
what to give up??? In this market. Hahahahaha. Not a damn thing!
You're forgetting the intangible benefits of working here. You get to screw over lower middle class and poor people! https://simpleflying.com/frontier-ai...e-us-airlines/ As a not lower middle class or poor person, at the moment, after getting burned the last two times I've bought tickets, I won't fly us unless it's free, even then I'm paranoid about my LW bag bring over 40 lbs, or my work tote not fitting in the sizer. As someone who used to love this airline, this breaks my heart. I think we all would have been better off with a quick death in 2009, vs this. |
Originally Posted by Mooneyguy
(Post 3676371)
what to give up??? In this market. Hahahahaha. Not a damn thing!
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Originally Posted by Blueskies67
(Post 3676492)
The only thing I may want to give up is my Frontier seniority number.
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Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
(Post 3676299)
This is spot on as well. Just another BL bad idea designed to create division. He’s looking for us to start arguing about what to give up. The problem is we’re not in the same negotiating environment as last time. At all. It won’t work.
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