You're actually lucky if they only owe you two or less paychecks when the deposits stop.

That said, Frontier has too much of value to just fold, order book and access to more pilots would at least mean a fragmented breakup, but soon Frontier could be worth more as pieces than as a whole.

 

I, in no way, think it’s likely to happen, but since it was mentioned and just to educate myself - how would a fragmented sale work as far as pilots are concerned? My memory is fuzzy on historical times that it may have happened.

 

I absolutely opinion that Frontier will never, not, no way, fold or cease ops, etc. No way

Will another investment group get them, via purchase, merger, take-over, whatever ?
Will Pilot pay be resolved and brought up to current Airbus pay across the industry ?
Will upgrades slow (or quicken) ?
Will pilot QOL / schedules / etc improve or get worse?


those, for me, are the unknowns.

Fold/cease ops/etc ? nope

 

I was still a kid but Pan Am - sold their pacific operations to United. The FO from the Tenerife accident Actually retired a UAL pilot. Other airlines took other bits and pieces but did not take pilots. Didn’t Delta get a lot of Europe slots ?

 

Delta got Europe and the Airbus A300 from Pan Am when then provided them a line of credit just prior to them shutting down. Pan Am came back to Delta for another line of line credit to avoid a shut down and Delta said no. Only Pan Am Airbus pilots ended up on the seniority list at Delta while everyone left over ended up on the street including those senior to the Airbus pilots…

 

Delta got their Europe operation including 5th freedom rights in Berlin, if I remember right. My Uncle was a 747 Captain for Pan Am based in LAX. He was one of the last ones absorbed into UAL, and as a kid, I remember my mom telling me that he was worried for a while. Delta did indeed take quite a few Pan Am pilots too. . You probably have a fragmentation clause in your contract that defines how many pilots go with aircraft, in the event of a fragmentation or break up. But I wouldn’t worry about that too much. There is so much demand for airline seats right now, worst case for you guys is a major or legacy scooping you up or merging with you. Frontier is making money and I’m sure your planes are pretty full, if not completely full. Every airline is having operational problems too, and Denver has been especially hard hit with delays lately, even without weather, there have been 2-3 hour delays. I think ATC is really short staffed in Denver and NYC. It’s a headache this summer.

Hang in there guys and girls, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

 

The guys that think this place will just close up shop are crazy. There is plenty of value in the pieces that make this airline we would be bought and merged if things got ugly.

 

not disagreeing but keep in mind that BB makes a point to not really "own anything." Aircraft are leased/financed (owned by the lender), engines the same, etc etc.

 

And as mentioned before, all aircraft on order that some believe to mean we HAVE to grow are entirely fungible among Indigo's assets... ie they can be reallocated from Frontier to Wizz, Volaris, Jetsmart, etc. with the stroke of a pen.

 

True we don’t own anything but currently the value is the rights to our assets. I remember when we owned airplanes and it was played up as an asset “a piggy bank we can tap into” (was the actual quote.) So what happened when the world tanked in 2008 and airplanes were dime a dozen? Our piggy bank disappeared. Franke is smart to lease everything…incredible leverage for another 2008 event (or Covid)…“want your airplanes back? Sure! Here they are! Oh, you don’t want them because everyone is returning airplanes? Ok, let’s negotiate!”