Second this. not taking a side per se but what we got was a nothing burger. At least something to the effect of “we need to calculate how bad it is exactly, but it’s bad. You may be hearing from the company about it before we get to you but rest assured we’re just tallying up how bad this proposal is so we can have our facts straight before we put anything out.” I typed that in 30 seconds, maybe add another 30 for a spell check

An 11% raise on DOS with reduction in MMC and transitioning MCO to block instead of credit isn’t overtly terrible? Didn’t realize that’s what we call a knee jerk reaction these days.

No one said anything about 30 knee jerk reaction emails you just made that one up on your own. If you take a breath and read the thread one more time instead of typing a “knee jerk reaction” response you’d see I was simply advocating the union would have been well served to BRIEFLY comment on the proposal before letting everyone’s imaginations run wild for a week and letting the company be the first to tell us about their masterpiece.

I agree with what you’re telling the original poster of that comment. I will say that for the union to send anything out quickly probably would have been frowned upon too. For example guys could say “really this is all they have to say” or my favorite guys I fly with I ask hey did you see the unions update… “No there a waste of time” Here’s the reality, the company is trying to cause division this is right out of the playbook at allegiant. They did the same exact thing to the pilots first comm from the company then the union. With that said we must also carefully consider that the union isn’t going to just throw something together. They need to analyze what was offered and where we currently are all while seeing what’s the difference between not just those two things but also where we want to be. It’s a fools errand to say it’s sh!t the offer from the company is garbage without running the numbers to have the data to back it up. This also takes time. While I don’t particularly trust either side or what they say data doesn’t lie.

Everyone needs to relax let the union do their job. They are the negotiating mouthpiece for the pilots at this airline. I’m more upset that management decided it’s OK to negotiate directly with the pilots and not go through my Union representation. That’s what you guys should be all mad about

AMEN

misplaced anger

Take a breath friend. Their proposal is so bad it doesn’t really matter. The details will come in one more day and it will sound just like the other 36 newsletter updates we’ve had before it. We are on the same path we were on before this negotiating session ever occurred.

No matter how much info is provided via a brief or a synopsis it will never be enough to satisfy everybody. We all have our preferences and any amount of info will always drive speculation. It’s as simple as the NC said in a newsletter exactly what they will do and now need to wait for them to honor that timeline.

I’m going to hesitantly add my two cents here.

My time at Frontier has grossly underwhelmed. However at least I’ve had a lot more time off than I would’ve had at the big boys.

Now regarding negotiations with a private equity fund. Never forget that they despise unions and that they are going to always attempt to belittle and humiliate the workforce, regardless of the industry. You are worth what you are willing to accept and in their eyes, you are not worth a penny more. My ex was a private equity attorney and would frequently work with PE funds. They would sit around the table and laugh about the ways they would try to demoralize the group. The reason for this is pretty simple, if you can convince a work group that they are worth less, it makes it much easier to sell the company as your labor price is lower. Of course the average PE fund holds a company for about five years and we are going on 12. My basic argument will always be that when employed by a private equity group we need to stand our ground and always remember that we are always worth what we contribute to this company. God bless the day that we merge, and we are no longer burdened by this group.

Absolutely.

You guys are more upset about the union letting the company get a communication out before they did? Good lord, guys. It doesn't matter.

You should be upset that Frontier thinks you're only worth an 11% raise with concessions. You should not be upset with the union. I'm not sure why I keep having to say this. The amount of misplaced anger is downright frightening.

You guys are acting like the union sent us the company proposal out for a vote! Let the NC negotiate on your behalf and stop criticizing the side that's working for you.