Living in a cave?
 

Are guys living in a cave? Spirit is gone, you’re entire MEC and National Officers have left years ago for other airlines, your current MEC and NC are in chaos, fuel prices are decimating your cash reserves, and here some of you are talking about getting released to self help and hoping for market pay rates.

it’s time you guys hope for the best and start planning for the worst. The worst being what Spirit just went through over the last two years. Their demise was a slow motion car wreck and that’s looking a lot like where F9 is headed.

Shoot the messenger here, but I’m making valid points.

Thanks Mom. What would we do without you.

While all this is correct you still need to work the process and improve work rules at the bargaining table (which was happening) so that you’re in a position to take advantage of any potential turnaround. If there is no turnaround and f9 goes tu you haven’t lost anything.

First, I was not in favor of the 165/169 actions. It might have made more sense had they waited until we saw what the new admin was willing to do. In fact, I've mentioned that the timing of all this seems very suspect (as in perhaps mgt is behind it all and somebody got paid).

Second, Comair was NOT the last self-help. Oddly enough it was NK in 2010.

Third, prior to self-help, there's always the pilot vote. Of course, you have to have all sections TA'd first, which wasn't happening, but TBH, it's still kinda early in the negotiating process. UA just voted down their current contract (the Tumi TA).

I didn't have a problem w/ our most recently recalled NC.

Yep, the sky is falling. Maybe we should all take concessions since our Mgt can't turn a profit and fuel prices are high. In fact, maybe we should all volunteer to work for free one trip a month. Maybe that would help.

Do us all a favor Bravo.

https://theflyingengineer.com/how-airlines-make-money/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/shephyk...even-billions/
https://thewisemarketer.com/how-airl...ss-of-loyalty/
https://www.spglobal.com/market-inte...s-expectations

[QUOTE=dracir1;4032115]

Third, prior to self-help, there's always the pilot vote. Of course, you have to have all sections TA'd first, which wasn't happening, but TBH, it's still kinda early in the negotiating process. UA just voted down their current contract (the Tumi TA).


I think you need to review the process because almost none of that is correct.

[QUOTE=fcoolaiddrinker;4032126]Ah FC...wondered where you went.

So the pilot vote on a TA (to go to AIP) isn't part of the process? Or is it not prior to self-help? And you don't need all the sections TA'd prior?
We aren't early in the process? Early opener for us was July 2023, no?
UA didn't vote down the Tumi TA? TBH, you may be correct there in that I'm not actually sure the TA made it to a vote (as I think Kirby withdrew it before it could be voted down).

[QUOTE=dracir1;4032135]There’s not always a pilot vote prior to self help for starters. UA didn’t vote down their current contract. That’s not possible or it wouldn’t be Their current contract. There’s a huge difference from what they voted down to what they currently have. I’m not even sure you could consider it a no vote when management and the mec told everyone to vote no? Details matter, you’re not really sending a message to provide leverage when management itself says it’s not good enough. Try reading what you wrote before submitting. Either that or go back and edit.

[QUOTE=fcoolaiddrinker;4032150]Ah, I see your thoughts now. The pilot vote ONLY APPLIES to a TA (as I mentioned). And yes, there's not always a TA presented prior to self-help but of course EVERY TA'd contract requires a vote.

UA was presented w/ the Tumi TA. It was the 1st iteration of THEIR CURRENT CONTRACT from this past contract cycle (regardless of how big the difference is between). As you already know, the real reason for the vote down was that DL and AA come out w/ theirs and it was drastically better. And regardless of whomever told them to, they still voted no - am I correct? Subsequently, the NC was fired and the TA was revised.

The point being that with a functioning NC, there are options: we've already beat the self-help option to death. The other is obviously an unworthy TA that gets voted down.

And, regardless of the option, it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY that either would be a realistic possibility under 3 years of negotiating.

That’s because no mediator is declaring an impasse with multiple open sec of an agreement. The more sec we get TAed the closer we are to a potential impasse over a few big ticket items.