Originally Posted by spooldup

I will say that this is a good thing and mentoring them might help, but it only depends on if they care or not. Most I have seen, do not care. (Standing in the jetbridge with their phones, getting upset at passengers, not making announcements, etc.)

Originally Posted by ProperMike

Hey All,

This is for the new pilots at Frontier, whether you plan to stay or not. Frontier can be the best airline in the industry to work for, but the internal culture and the public’s image of the company is driven by the pilots, not management. If we want to be the best airline, it can be done, but only by the things that we have control over.

I’ve been with Frontier for a while and seen truly impressive growth in the size of the airline and in the operational advances we’ve made, but the one factor that we’re lacking in many instances is pilot-to-passenger communication. Let’s be clear, no passenger gives a hoot what the gate agents say, what the flight attendants tell them or what customer service says. Every passenger knows that the only people with maximum awareness of a situation related to getting them somewhere by airplane is the captain and first officer. I have been on flights as a passenger where we have failed in communicating expectations and I’ve been on flights where things fell apart but we over-communicated with our passengers and the difference in passenger response was night and day. Probably even changing a disgruntled passenger to a repeat customer. I have only my own anecdotes to rely on but I have too many to discount.



Starting at the gate: we all complain about the gate agents. Yep, underpaid, overworked and undertrained people who are learning the basics of communications on the job. The problem here is that passengers develop the primacy that if the gate agent is a jerk, then the whole crew is made up of jerks and the whole company is comprised of jerks. But we don’t need to let them be our representatives. When I get to the gate, I ask the agents if I can make a welcome announcement to the passengers. When I do this, the gate agents lose their damn minds. They love when pilots acknowledge the passengers at the gate because it puts the passengers at ease and allows them to see who is really actually in charge. The announcement is brief with just a hello/welcome, my name, the crew is preparing the airplane for departure, and boarding will begin as soon as the aircraft has been inspect inside and out for safety. I’ve gotten too many comments from passengers about how nice it was for me to talk to everyone at the gate to not do it regularly now. Time spent doing this each flight? Maybe two minutes.

If we incur a delay for any reason, I make an announcement every 10 minutes in the gate area or every five minutes if we’ve boarded with either status quo or what progress we’ve made. Again, even after two hour delays, people who were outwardly frustrated during the delay admit that while they were very impatient, they really appreciated the updates rather than sitting in complete confusion with gate agents rudely shooing everyone away. Don’t let someone else be your voice if you don’t approve of their message.



Gate changes: at some airports, operations will change gates from one side of the airport all the way to the other side at the last minute, which is understandably challenging for the elderly and those with lots of bags or even a couple of children. Do not let the gate agents make that announcement. As the pilot, make the announcement yourself, acknowledge the inconvenience and then explain where the new gate is. I’ve always received immediate outrage following these announcements, but as soon as I explain over the gate PA that we’re all moving over to the new gate together and that I’ll be walking behind the slowest person so nobody will get left behind, the attitude changes to it just being a mild inconvenience. It’s easy to slink away to the new gate and board an hour later with angry passengers but I think it’s up to us to do better. Again, after doing this passengers rave that I’m the best captain in the world. High praise for absolute minimal effort in my opinion.



Flight attendants: we have very pleasant coworkers in the cabin but when they make an announcement it’s done with about 10% conviction. I have learned that neither a flight attendant nor a seat belt sign will ever be more informative that a PA from the cockpit. Every time I turn the seatbelt sign off at cruise, I tell the passengers it’ll be off for the foreseeable future, however it may be turned back on at any time we think it’ll be safer for everyone to be seated with belts fastened. When I turn the seatbelt sign back on, I explain that we’re experiencing or about to experience turbulence and therefore everyone needs to be in their seats with belts fastened. Flight attendants are required to make an announcement every time the seatbelt status changes and they hate it when it goes on and off all flight, but we can make that announcement in their stead. When I’m making the announcement, it 1) holds way more weight that if a FA says it and 2) prevents them from getting cranky when it goes on or off more than twice a flight. I also think that we take our position in the airplane for granted, which is to say, once the cockpit door closes, we can jump out of that plane and the passengers wouldn’t even know nobody was flying it. By making announcements and using the signs, it shows that we’re not flying cargo and we take their safety and comfort seriously during a time in which they have zero control over their own safety, or more importantly the safety of their children should they be on board. We need to do better with letting passengers know that we’re always in the cockpit with their safety in mind.



Tarmac delays: if we’re waiting for more than five minutes for a gate, I always express my gratitude for the passengers’ patience with the status of our operation. If it’s going to be more than ten minutes, I’ll set the parking brake, let ATC or ramp know we need a three minute heads up before moving and I’ll turn the seatbelt sign off for people to stretch their legs, grab things from the bins or use the restroom. I always announce that while the gate isn’t available just yet, everyone can get up and I’ll give a three minute notice of needing everybody back in their seats and bags back in the overhead bins before we move again. The passengers know this is not a right, but a consolation from the cockpit. In my head, I’m trying to make the aircraft as little of a tubular prison as possible. Anybody reading this who knows someone with or has claustrophobia themselves will understand that those little things make a big difference. Can I give everyone on board a free drink and snack for unexpectedly waiting 80 minutes for a gate? No. But setting the brake and giving them freedom to move about is free. So is a status announcement every five minutes. Again, I’ve been stuck on the tarmac for over an hour where over-communicating with everyone ends with passengers taking pity on me for having worked so hard to keep them comfortable and informed that they have forgotten about their own inconvenience. Meanwhile, I’ve been getting paid. If you’re on reserve, we’ve all been there. I promise it gets better with seniority.



Ground crews: I’ve met the majority of our ground crews and their managers. They aren’t lazy, they aren’t vindictive. They literally triage every aircraft coming in and going out to make the overall operation run smoothly. One out of every five trips I end up taking a tarmac delay but you cannot take it personally. If they made you do their jobs for a week, half the people here would fold and become accountants. We need to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to delays. And I think we all need to admit that operations have become far better than they were previously. They might not be Frontier employees but they are really good people to have on our team. I always offer them my bottle of water when they come up to do the bag counts because damn, do they deserve it more than I do.



For the newer guys here at F9, we have a lot of young first officers taking on responsibilities that they may not be ready for. It takes a tremendous amount of maturity and dedication to do this job properly for not only the longevity of your career but for the people that you have as passengers today. The only advice I have for you is to act in a way today that will make you feel proud of yourself tomorrow. I have gotten frustrated with people and snapped when things just wouldn’t go right, but I know for a fact that when I remain pleasant and calm, the situation resolves itself one way or another and the only difference is how I look afterwards. If you can maintain a positive attitude with everyone doing their jobs, then I promise that you will feel good about yourself on your drive home. The quote that best represents this career to me is “people don’t remember what you said or what you did, they remember how you made them feel.” If you can apply this to your position you will always have the best passengers, the best crews, and the best ground ops. Get to know them, because they look to you for leadership whether you know it or not. If we want Delta compensation, we need to provide better service from the cockpit to change the public’s perception of our airline.

Originally Posted by ProperMike

Hey All,

This is for the new pilots at Frontier, whether you plan to stay or not. Frontier can be the best airline in the industry to work for, but the internal culture and the public’s image of the company is driven by the pilots, not management.If we want to be the best airline, it can be done, but only by the things that we have control over.

I’ve been with Frontier for a while and seen truly impressive growth in the size of the airline and in the operational advances we’ve made, but the one factor that we’re lacking in many instances is pilot-to-passenger communication. Let’s be clear, no passenger gives a hoot what the gate agents say, what the flight attendants tell them or what customer service says. Every passenger knows that the only people with maximum awareness of a situation related to getting them somewhere by airplane is the captain and first officer. I have been on flights as a passenger where we have failed in communicating expectations and I’ve been on flights where things fell apart but we over-communicated with our passengers and the difference in passenger response was night and day. Probably even changing a disgruntled passenger to a repeat customer. I have only my own anecdotes to rely on but I have too many to discount.



Starting at the gate: we all complain about the gate agents. Yep, underpaid, overworked and undertrained people who are learning the basics of communications on the job. The problem here is that passengers develop the primacy that if the gate agent is a jerk, then the whole crew is made up of jerks and the whole company is comprised of jerks. But we don’t need to let them be our representatives. When I get to the gate, I ask the agents if I can make a welcome announcement to the passengers. When I do this, the gate agents lose their damn minds. They love when pilots acknowledge the passengers at the gate because it puts the passengers at ease and allows them to see who is really actually in charge. The announcement is brief with just a hello/welcome, my name, the crew is preparing the airplane for departure, and boarding will begin as soon as the aircraft has been inspect inside and out for safety. I’ve gotten too many comments from passengers about how nice it was for me to talk to everyone at the gate to not do it regularly now. Time spent doing this each flight? Maybe two minutes.

If we incur a delay for any reason, I make an announcement every 10 minutes in the gate area or every five minutes if we’ve boarded with either status quo or what progress we’ve made. Again, even after two hour delays, people who were outwardly frustrated during the delay admit that while they were very impatient, they really appreciated the updates rather than sitting in complete confusion with gate agents rudely shooing everyone away. Don’t let someone else be your voice if you don’t approve of their message.



Gate changes: at some airports, operations will change gates from one side of the airport all the way to the other side at the last minute, which is understandably challenging for the elderly and those with lots of bags or even a couple of children. Do not let the gate agents make that announcement. As the pilot, make the announcement yourself, acknowledge the inconvenience and then explain where the new gate is. I’ve always received immediate outrage following these announcements, but as soon as I explain over the gate PA that we’re all moving over to the new gate together and that I’ll be walking behind the slowest person so nobody will get left behind, the attitude changes to it just being a mild inconvenience. It’s easy to slink away to the new gate and board an hour later with angry passengers but I think it’s up to us to do better. Again, after doing this passengers rave that I’m the best captain in the world. High praise for absolute minimal effort in my opinion.



Flight attendants: we have very pleasant coworkers in the cabin but when they make an announcement it’s done with about 10% conviction. I have learned that neither a flight attendant nor a seat belt sign will ever be more informative that a PA from the cockpit. Every time I turn the seatbelt sign off at cruise, I tell the passengers it’ll be off for the foreseeable future, however it may be turned back on at any time we think it’ll be safer for everyone to be seated with belts fastened. When I turn the seatbelt sign back on, I explain that we’re experiencing or about to experience turbulence and therefore everyone needs to be in their seats with belts fastened. Flight attendants are required to make an announcement every time the seatbelt status changes and they hate it when it goes on and off all flight, but we can make that announcement in their stead. When I’m making the announcement, it 1) holds way more weight that if a FA says it and 2) prevents them from getting cranky when it goes on or off more than twice a flight. I also think that we take our position in the airplane for granted, which is to say, once the cockpit door closes, we can jump out of that plane and the passengers wouldn’t even know nobody was flying it. By making announcements and using the signs, it shows that we’re not flying cargo and we take their safety and comfort seriously during a time in which they have zero control over their own safety, or more importantly the safety of their children should they be on board. We need to do better with letting passengers know that we’re always in the cockpit with their safety in mind.



Tarmac delays: if we’re waiting for more than five minutes for a gate, I always express my gratitude for the passengers’ patience with the status of our operation. If it’s going to be more than ten minutes, I’ll set the parking brake, let ATC or ramp know we need a three minute heads up before moving and I’ll turn the seatbelt sign off for people to stretch their legs, grab things from the bins or use the restroom. I always announce that while the gate isn’t available just yet, everyone can get up and I’ll give a three minute notice of needing everybody back in their seats and bags back in the overhead bins before we move again. The passengers know this is not a right, but a consolation from the cockpit. In my head, I’m trying to make the aircraft as little of a tubular prison as possible. Anybody reading this who knows someone with or has claustrophobia themselves will understand that those little things make a big difference. Can I give everyone on board a free drink and snack for unexpectedly waiting 80 minutes for a gate? No. But setting the brake and giving them freedom to move about is free. So is a status announcement every five minutes. Again, I’ve been stuck on the tarmac for over an hour where over-communicating with everyone ends with passengers taking pity on me for having worked so hard to keep them comfortable and informed that they have forgotten about their own inconvenience. Meanwhile, I’ve been getting paid. If you’re on reserve, we’ve all been there. I promise it gets better with seniority.



Ground crews: I’ve met the majority of our ground crews and their managers. They aren’t lazy, they aren’t vindictive. They literally triage every aircraft coming in and going out to make the overall operation run smoothly. One out of every five trips I end up taking a tarmac delay but you cannot take it personally. If they made you do their jobs for a week, half the people here would fold and become accountants. We need to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to delays. And I think we all need to admit that operations have become far better than they were previously. They might not be Frontier employees but they are really good people to have on our team. I always offer them my bottle of water when they come up to do the bag counts because damn, do they deserve it more than I do.



For the newer guys here at F9, we have a lot of young first officers taking on responsibilities that they may not be ready for. It takes a tremendous amount of maturity and dedication to do this job properly for not only the longevity of your career but for the people that you have as passengers today. The only advice I have for you is to act in a way today that will make you feel proud of yourself tomorrow. I have gotten frustrated with people and snapped when things just wouldn’t go right, but I know for a fact that when I remain pleasant and calm, the situation resolves itself one way or another and the only difference is how I look afterwards. If you can maintain a positive attitude with everyone doing their jobs, then I promise that you will feel good about yourself on your drive home. The quote that best represents this career to me is “people don’t remember what you said or what you did, they remember how you made them feel.” If you can apply this to your position you will always have the best passengers, the best crews, and the best ground ops. Get to know them, because they look to you for leadership whether you know it or not. If we want Delta compensation, we need to provide better service from the cockpit to change the public’s perception of our airline.

Originally Posted by hercretired

Hi Brad, nice to see you on APC

So you give 12 PA's per hour?

Delta compensatsion starts with "better service from the cockpit?"

Publics image is driven by Pilots?

All of the above in your post, starts with leadership, and example set from the top.

Tell Barry hello for us

Originally Posted by hercretired

Hi Brad, nice to see you on APC

So you give 12 PA's per hour?

Delta compensatsion starts with "better service from the cockpit?"

Publics image is driven by Pilots?

All of the above in your post, starts with leadership, and example set from the top.

Tell Barry hello for us

Originally Posted by Warhawker

As a new hire myself, I 100% agree with what this CA is saying. I came from Lincoln Motor company, and they know customer service. I was shocked how many opportunities we had during IOE to keep passenger informed. A simple 10 second PA "Hey folks, from the flight deck just a quick update, we have about 8 airplanes ahead of us, and they are spacing everyone out for the weather. We should be up in about 10 minutes or so." If not for the company, I'd do it out of basic customer service. I'll walk people to a gate if it's on the way - and be sure they know I'm with Frontier.

Go ahead and tell me it's not your job - that's fine, you do your thing. I'll do mine when I'm in the left seat, at F9.

Originally Posted by hercretired

Hi Brad, nice to see you on APC

So you give 12 PA's per hour?

Delta compensatsion starts with "better service from the cockpit?"

Publics image is driven by Pilots?

All of the above in your post, starts with leadership, and example set from the top.

Tell Barry hello for us

Originally Posted by ProperMike

I will absolutely make 12 PAs in an hour because I’ve been stuck in the back of our planes during irregular operations and I can’t tell you how reassuring it is to know that someone is advocating for us to get off the aircraft. Why? Because I know people at this company that will sit in a dark airplane and collect money hoping that ops doesn’t open up a gate so they can F the company over.

The point is that leadership has zero incentive to change anything, and with 2200 pilots and growing, most of whom have less than two years on property, I really hope that we show them the kind of captain we need them to become, because in two years you will lose even more control as they upgrade and start making decisions that affect your career and paycheck. I fly with complaining, jaded FOs that have six months on property and less that three decades of life experience, and I can tell you that every one of them is repeating what they hear from the left seat. We can bite our noses to spite our faces, but when this airline goes belly up in two years because our pilot group’s toxicity has tanked our ops and driven our customers away, Barry and Brad will watch it burn beneath golden parachutes and we’ll be the idiots saying “look what management did”.

Do I want $400/hr and LTD to age 65. You freakin betcha. But I also want to be on a ship that floats in two years and if we work together I’m pretty sure we can have both. Just don’t look outwardly for help.

Originally Posted by ProperMike

I will absolutely make 12 PAs in an hour because I’ve been stuck in the back of our planes during irregular operations and I can’t tell you how reassuring it is to know that someone is advocating for us to get off the aircraft. Why? Because I know people at this company that will sit in a dark airplane and collect money hoping that ops doesn’t open up a gate so they can F the company over.

The point is that leadership has zero incentive to change anything, and with 2200 pilots and growing, most of whom have less than two years on property, I really hope that we show them the kind of captain we need them to become, because in two years you will lose even more control as they upgrade and start making decisions that affect your career and paycheck. I fly with complaining, jaded FOs that have six months on property and less that three decades of life experience, and I can tell you that every one of them is repeating what they hear from the left seat. We can bite our noses to spite our faces, but when this airline goes belly up in two years because our pilot group’s toxicity has tanked our ops and driven our customers away, Barry and Brad will watch it burn beneath golden parachutes and we’ll be the idiots saying “look what management did”.

Do I want $400/hr and LTD to age 65. You freakin betcha. But I also want to be on a ship that floats in two years and if we work together I’m pretty sure we can have both. Just don’t look outwardly for help.

Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

PA’s and keeping pax in the back happy is expected as a professional pilot at any airline. Getting out of your lane with some of the other things you mentioned can land you back in the right seat for a year or worse with this management. Just keep that in mind.