Some perspective on what we do
 

We all know contracts are not only good/bad by pay rates, but also by the "compensation" in other areas such as scheduling, vacation, retirement, etc.

But some perspective on what we do compared to our peers at legacies and other majors that it seems not many people know (I know you probably know, but a lot of pilots dont bother to look) just how many lives we have in our hands on a daily basis compared to other pilots. Some younger and more new/junior pilots I talk to seem to not grasp just how much they are doing at work and think they are less than a legacy pilot because "they might be stuck at a ULCC for the rest of their career" like they are missing something.

Our aircraft, A320 and A321neo/ceo, we carry 186 (soon to be 182 with those new seats?) and 240/230 (236/226) respectively. The recent CBAs by other airlines, all have increasing pay based on seating of aircraft, this is evident by their various pay rates for their 320, 321, 321neo, 220-100/300, etc.

Delta's 12 year CA on the Airbus A320 will soon make 388/hr in 2026. Their 2nd year FO will make 192/hr. Their 321neo will pay 12 year CA 404/hr and 2nd year FO 199/hr. Their Airbus A330 12 year CAs will get 484/hr and their 2nd year FO will be at 239/hr.

We currently are capped out making 270/hr as CA and our 2nd year FOs make 118/hr.

Delta carries 157 pax in their A320. We carry 186. Delta carries 194 in their A321neo and we carry 240. Delta's A330-200 carries 223 pax. Their longboi 757s (300s) carry 234 pax (same pay as their 321Neo), Their 767-300 carries 226 and their 767-400 carries 238.

You carry more passengers than MOST of those widebodies that you see, so just think about that when we see numbers for a new contract or when you consider your "worth as a pilot" since that seems to be something people at majors/ULCCs/LCCs worry about. (oh yeah, and we do more with less than other airlines that I know of)

Couldn't agree more.

The fact that F9 pilots don’t realize how many paxs are on their airplanes is half the reason they’re behind.

You bring up some good points - our pay does seem to be tied to capacity but you must also look at revenue generation. Many WBs are literally carrying tons of cargo for big bucks and premium international seats go for mutiple thousands of dollars. So if you just look at WB seats it might not be telling the whole picture. With that said you guys should definitely shoot to match the legacy NB aircraft on pay rates.

Scoop

How many people we carry is irrelevant. If I am flying A321 compensate me as one.

Guys at AA don't get paid less flying the A321T just because it has less seats.

When it comes to unions negotiating on pay for airframe it really comes down to how much liability you have in your hands.

more seats = more responsibility.

Barry likes to say the airlines are a commodoty business, I agree... So are pilots.

I ageee. Youre not gonna hear an argument from me.

I support your want for better pay rates. Having said that, you should not compare seats (sorry). AA flew a 321 transcon with 102 seats. You really can't compare that to a Frontier A317 (A318 was 130? seats). Those 10 first class seats and 20 business seats took twice the space of the 72 seats in the back. I don't think AA did that because they dislike making money (I know, hard to believe with their financials, but still). And any WB will carry a lot of cargo as well as premium pax.
If you want to get paid based on how much you make per person, become a doctor. Southwest pilots make the best NB pay in the industry. They fly the same sized/smaller airframe as you do. All NB pilots make more than F9 NB pilots.That is the argument for better pay.

I agree with the first post pay comments

hourly Big-3 FO pay is like $5-10 bucks below Year 3 Frontier Captain Pay

let that sink in boys

when the majors re-up their contacts circa 2028, Barry will have "just signed" the new pay rates

SW "makes the most NB pay" because they fly more. Do you want 4 legs a day in a 1967 cockpit? No thanks. Their pay structure is somewhat different. The number of Frontier pilots who have bailed for SW is minimal to non-exsistent, maybe some SW Kool Aid drinkers or whose wives were SW FA's. etc

Way to take things the wrong way! I mentioned SW pay because you should use it for pay comparison. Just like it make no sense to look at DL WB pay, it does not make sense to say SWA pilots deserve more because they work in an old cockpit. No, you didn't say that directly, but saying nobody is leaving F9 to get almost twice as much at SWA is almost as bad.
FYI, average is 2.5 legs per day, 14 duty days per month for line holders at SWA. That is 35 legs per month on average (and around 700 block per year). How many legs does the average F9 pilot fly per month? I don't work for SWA, but I sure as what enjoy the benefits of their "somewhat different pay structure" for the household.