Airline Pilot Central Forums - Some perspective on what we do

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- - Some perspective on what we do (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/frontier/149832-some-perspective-what-we-do.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uninteresting (Post 3895655)

mic drop….

mic drop from AI? Hardly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stayontarget (Post 3895675)

mic drop from AI? Hardly

itz more interesting that he needed AI to tell him f9 and delta have different different profit margins, revenue, and market positions. Like no **** Sherlock. We also have different crew bases too. Did you need AI to point that out to you as well? Hats vs no hats?

You deserve what you can negotiate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot (Post 3895510)

This is the answer Grok gave. Remember Grok is an AI and doesn't have an agenda (we hope) and no emotional connection to either argument.

Several factors could justify a Delta Airlines pilot flying an A320 earning more than a Frontier Airlines pilot flying the same aircraft:

Career Trajectory and Pilot Retention: Delta is often a destination airline for pilots, attracting seasoned aviators who see it as a long-term career goal with higher pay and stability. In contrast, Frontier operates as a mid-tier, stepping-stone airline, where many pilots—especially younger ones—gain experience before moving to top-tier carriers like United, American, or Delta. This dynamic means Delta tends to employ pilots who’ve reached a career pinnacle, while Frontier’s workforce includes less senior pilots, impacting pay scales.
Company Revenue and Profitability: Delta generates significantly higher revenue and operates on a larger scale than Frontier. This financial capacity allows Delta to offer higher salaries while maintaining profitability. Frontier, as an ultra-low-cost carrier, prioritizes keeping operational costs—including labor—lower to offer competitive ticket prices.
Benefits and Perks: Beyond base salary, Delta pilots often receive better retirement plans, health benefits, and profit-sharing bonuses, which effectively increase their total compensation package compared to Frontier’s leaner offerings.
Market Positioning: Delta competes as a premium airline, which supports paying pilots more to attract and retain top talent. Frontier, aiming for cost efficiency, might not prioritize the same level of pilot compensation to keep fares low.
Profit Margins: Frontier operates on razor-thin profit margins compared to Delta, which enjoys robust profitability from its larger scale and premium market position. Paying Frontier pilots the same as Delta’s could push Frontier into unprofitability, as its low-cost model relies on keeping expenses—including labor—tightly controlled.

I wonder if AI considers the fact that Frontier markets (or at least used to market) itself to pilots as a career airline. In fact, back in the Thibodeaux days, the CP would fire FOs on the spot for submitting a 2 weeks notice within a year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginntonic (Post 3895567)

When my ballot arrives I know how I'm voting.
.

You already know how you're voting? I guess that's a "zero information voter"?

Hopefully that's not what you meant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero1900 (Post 3895824)

You already know how you're voting? I guess that's a "zero information voter"?

Hopefully that's not what you meant

vote NO on the first offer. And I’m not even being sarcastic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LinaPeru (Post 3895832)

vote NO on the first offer. And I’m not even being sarcastic.

I don’t understand the logic of this. There is an opportunity cost associated with that. They won’t turn around a new deal immediately. Vote no if you think its a bad deal. But if its reasonable, at least consider it. Every day that goes by is money we lose. Don’t prolong that unnecessarily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aventhusiast (Post 3895861)

Vote on the contract based on the contract, not a cute little phrase.

This isn't buying a used car.

Voting no just to vote no could end up costing us a lot of money. Stupid

Quote:

Originally Posted by aventhusiast (Post 3895861)

yeah well getting paid below market rates for the 5+ years of the contract’s life will be losing money too.

No profit sharing is losing money too.

No overrides will be losing money too.

No retro checks will be losing money too.

No snap ups will be losing money too.

Theres all sorts of ways you’ve been losing money and will continue to lose money.

im not really sure where you’re going with this.

you say “reasonable”, I’m not really sure what reasonable is. Two years ago, at the start of negotiations, reasonable had a very different connotation than “contract 2030”. Two years ago reaonable might have been JetBlue rates. Contract 2030 you think JB rates would be reasonable? F U if you think the answer to that question is yes.

Legacies start negotiations in 26.
Two contract cycles behind, years of money lost to inflation unable to be invested. You got idiots on here screaming out of both sides of their mouths that we aren’t going to be paid industry rates, but we’re not going to see a contract until god knows when.

so why are we taking about reasonable? Reason has gone dude. Your union is saying the company doesn’t negotiate in good faith. Reason has left the conversation. You probably have more to gain by not taking the first offer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LinaPeru (Post 3895866)

All I said is its silly to say vote no to the first offer reflexively, no matter what. So why is that deserving of an FU? I didn’t say vote in a pile of crap. I didn’t say settle for a bunch less. I didn’t say vote yes to the first thing either. I'm simply pointing out we have a massive number of pilots that have never been through negotiations and rather than give over-simplistic advice, we should think critically enough to decide if its a good deal or not. And all that money that you rightly point out we lose every day will continue to be lost as we try for round 2 or 3 or whatever. Thats all. It may be worth the fight and a no vote, Im just saying we have to be intelligent and fight hard and not use blanket statements.