A320 Pilot

You can definitely exclude VA from the your list of doom and gloom as VA has very deep pockets,before VA it will be all the legacy carriers in this country that will either go bankrupt or simply down under and even than VA should survive.

jdt30

You sound very informed. I'm guessing your CEO told you all about the deep pocket? Since I"m flying at Cal I guess I should start filing for unemployment.

Spaceman Spliff

if I had a dollar for every People Express, Skybus, Eastern, Braniff, etc etc. pilot who insisted that his airline would outlast a Twinkie...I might be able to afford the same amount kool-aid you've ingested.

chicken

The source will be revealed tomorrow...

Pilot41

Sorry but it would mean SW has a better product. The SW product is made up of it's service and personal(management, pilot, FA's, rampers, CSR's, etc.)., they hedged others didn't or at least not like SWA. I laugh every time I hear someone say something like, " Southwest only made money because they hedged." Yeah, so what's your point. Thats good/smart business.

I also find sad that so many people on this board are waiting with glee at the prospect that SWA might lose money. From my point of view we should all be proud the a USA has one of the best managed and run airlines in the world for the past 30+ years. We should all hope that our own companies were run half as well. To date zero have come close, they have a great product.

As for how long Frontier has, I hope it goes on long after I'm gone. I feel sure that everyone there will do thier best to make it work.

Herkulesdrvr

Are you kidding us? Legacies before Va?? Where are you getting this information from? Sorry, but sounds like lies to me.

330xi

Notice his syntax is very poor. An uneducated person willing to fly for less than six figures.

Andy

Never say never. Branson's pulled out of other businesses that have not been profitable.
VA lost $35 million in the first 53 days of operations.
VA requested an exemption from supplying the DOT with their fourth quarter stats. Why? That's never a good sign.

How have loads been at VA? Are they still selling tickets at fire sale prices?

http://industry.bnet.com/travel/2008...gns-lie-ahead/

http://www.airlinefanatic.com/2008/0...deadpool-next/

Andy

F9 is extremely short on cash. F9 hasn't been able to line up any DIP (debtor in possession) financing; that's not a good sign.

F9 had $170M, according to their end of Dec filing. They haven't filed a 10Q for Jan-Mar 08 yet, so it's difficult to determine their current cash position. It's unlikely that F9 will be able to emerge from bankruptcy unless they find additional cash and soon.

Due to negative cash flow trends, First Data told F9 that they would be increasing the holdback percentage on tickets sold to 50%. First Data also wanted to increase collateral from $54.5M to $130M. First Data was obviously getting rather concerned over F9's survival, since their air traffic liability at the end of Dec was $174.7M.
In one of their bankruptcy filings, F9's SVP of Finance (Edward Christie) said that F9 had $18.1M left on letters of credit.
I don't know how long F9 will be able to hold off First Data's attempt to increase holdback, but if F9's credit card processor agreement expires anytime soon, they'll likely be toast instantly.

F9's sold 2 A318s and 2 A319s, allowing them to free up ~$35M in equity (I don't have the exact numbers at my fingertips right now). Having watched this with other airlines, I'll go out on a limb and say those aircraft probably had the most equity of any aircraft in F9's fleet. Any additional aircraft sales will not net as much money.

With F9 filing for bankruptcy, they'll have to pay everything on a cash basis; there'll be no more 60 days same as cash. That's a huge squeeze on cash flow.

It seems like Southwest has been adding DEN flights ever since F9 declared bankruptcy. With Southwest rapidly expanding in DEN, they are putting the screws to F9. I have no doubt that LUV's goal is to put F9 out of business.

Here are a couple of LUV's latest press releases:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....359&highlight=
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....426&highlight=

Zapata

I don't doubt the dedication of SW's employees and management but, when it boils down to it, I still think Frontier's product is better. More comfortable seating, more leg room, multimedia in each seat and assigned seating. All things considered from point A to point B, I'll opt for F9. (BTW; when it comes down to the rank and file employees, pilots, rampers, FA's etc, it is ridiculous to claim that one group is somehow better)


What is so funny to make you laugh every time? The point is just that. There is nothing wrong with pointing out facts and it isn't a put down to SW.

I haven't seen anyone on this board express that. Show me one and I'll show you a troll that should just be ignored anyway.