Frontier pilots sold out by FAPA
08-18-2009, 09:02 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
Now they have to make it look like it wasn't their fault that the "negotiations" went nowhere, or they might be blamed for shooting down what would have been a great deal for Southwest.
An arbitrated deal is not a good deal. This wasn't going to be any kind of a good deal for Southwest unless we ended up with Southwest employees at the end of it.
In the timeframe allowed, that couldn't happen.
The last thing I wan't to do is fly with a former F9 guy who's angry that he got "assimilated", and then turn around and fly with a SWA guy who's angry his seniority got slammed.
This way, we're all happy with our decisions and we can all sit back and wait to say "I told ya so". The only question is which side is going to say it first.
08-18-2009, 12:39 PM
#62
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
We don't have to make it look like anything. It is what it is. Your posts smack of conspiracy and cover up.
An arbitrated deal is not a good deal. This wasn't going to be any kind of a good deal for Southwest unless we ended up with Southwest employees at the end of it.
In the timeframe allowed, that couldn't happen.
The last thing I wan't to do is fly with a former F9 guy who's angry that he got "assimilated", and then turn around and fly with a SWA guy who's angry his seniority got slammed.
This way, we're all happy with our decisions and we can all sit back and wait to say "I told ya so". The only question is which side is going to say it first.
An arbitrated deal is not a good deal. This wasn't going to be any kind of a good deal for Southwest unless we ended up with Southwest employees at the end of it.
In the timeframe allowed, that couldn't happen.
The last thing I wan't to do is fly with a former F9 guy who's angry that he got "assimilated", and then turn around and fly with a SWA guy who's angry his seniority got slammed.
This way, we're all happy with our decisions and we can all sit back and wait to say "I told ya so". The only question is which side is going to say it first.
You want to know who will be saying "I told you so" first? I have a guess...
08-18-2009, 01:19 PM
#63
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: 737 FO, T-6 Trunk Monkey
Posts: 42
Entitlement and Photo Grande
“The last thing I wan't to do is fly with a former F9 guy who's angry that he got "assimilated", and then turn around and fly with a SWA guy who's angry his seniority got slammed.”
Shack, 1 Seat, that’s the bottom line here IMHO, and in my estimation, THAT’S OK! IT’S NOT A SLIGHT TO ANYONE!!
I’ve gotta throw my 2 pesos in on all this F9/SWA/RAH stuff. Subject of Rant: Entitlement and the Photo Grande. FWIW in my situation (< 1 year to separate, not retire, from active duty, and in the SWA pool), I'm under no illusions that I'm owed a job because of what pool I'm in or what type rating I bought. I took a calculated risk, spent my money knowing I may never get any ROI, and even if I get a line number one day, I'm under no illusions I'm entitled to keep it for the rest of my life (i.e. relative, fenced, feathered, stapled, smothered, covered, whatever) if the company I end up hitching my wagon to goes teats-up, even through no negligence of their own. The industry is what it is as they're so fond of saying these days. I know the risks. That's what backup plans (reserves and master's degrees in my case) are for. Crazy reading these boards...where does this sense of entitlement come from and how can I get some? It's capitalism; this is the United States of America. It's business. It's economics. It's varying philosophies on how to run a company. Do your homework. Stay informed. Make YOUR choices for employment based on the REALITIES of the industry in which you are considering/continuing your employment in. Am I wrong?
Go with spears...I'm sure I'll get: flamed for being too callous, not standing with my pilot bretheren, I'm military, not in the industry, don't know what I'm talking about, denied a jumpseat, I sound like management (ooh, I bet I'll be accused of being a suit lurking on these boards...)
The bottom line is I wish everyone the best, but man, can we quit with all the ridiculous bickering, the venomous reaction to pure speculation on the hows and ifs this or that would have won then this many would have been furloughed, and my favorite, the “you think you’re better than me, no I don’t, well I am because I picked the better...”, blah, blah, blah…there’s a whole thread on here dedicated to that one. Children please…
Shack, 1 Seat, that’s the bottom line here IMHO, and in my estimation, THAT’S OK! IT’S NOT A SLIGHT TO ANYONE!!
I’ve gotta throw my 2 pesos in on all this F9/SWA/RAH stuff. Subject of Rant: Entitlement and the Photo Grande. FWIW in my situation (< 1 year to separate, not retire, from active duty, and in the SWA pool), I'm under no illusions that I'm owed a job because of what pool I'm in or what type rating I bought. I took a calculated risk, spent my money knowing I may never get any ROI, and even if I get a line number one day, I'm under no illusions I'm entitled to keep it for the rest of my life (i.e. relative, fenced, feathered, stapled, smothered, covered, whatever) if the company I end up hitching my wagon to goes teats-up, even through no negligence of their own. The industry is what it is as they're so fond of saying these days. I know the risks. That's what backup plans (reserves and master's degrees in my case) are for. Crazy reading these boards...where does this sense of entitlement come from and how can I get some? It's capitalism; this is the United States of America. It's business. It's economics. It's varying philosophies on how to run a company. Do your homework. Stay informed. Make YOUR choices for employment based on the REALITIES of the industry in which you are considering/continuing your employment in. Am I wrong?
Go with spears...I'm sure I'll get: flamed for being too callous, not standing with my pilot bretheren, I'm military, not in the industry, don't know what I'm talking about, denied a jumpseat, I sound like management (ooh, I bet I'll be accused of being a suit lurking on these boards...)
The bottom line is I wish everyone the best, but man, can we quit with all the ridiculous bickering, the venomous reaction to pure speculation on the hows and ifs this or that would have won then this many would have been furloughed, and my favorite, the “you think you’re better than me, no I don’t, well I am because I picked the better...”, blah, blah, blah…there’s a whole thread on here dedicated to that one. Children please…
08-18-2009, 03:12 PM
#64
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
An arbitrated integration would have protected perhaps ALL of our pilots
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
Hence, SWA's position was much further from "fair and equitable" than was FAPA's. That's why there was no way that SWAPA was going to let it go to arbitration, regardless of what management would have liked.
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
Now they have to make it look like it wasn't their fault that the "negotiations" went nowhere, or they might be blamed for shooting down what would have been a great deal for Southwest.
EVERYONE I know is pleased with the outcome. Why? Because the next morning after the deal was lost we all still woke up as Southwest Airlines pilots. And we couldn't be happier about that.
08-18-2009, 03:37 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 191
Originally Posted by AU96
“. . .Am I wrong?. . .
Well said, but what do I know? I've been swimming here a while myself.
Hope you get to enjoy your last few months on AD and let's hope we won't be swimming too much longer.
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