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Quote:

Originally Posted by Barley (Post 1677976)

I'm guessing you were hired low-time and upgraded relatively quickly? Your ability to lead and make decisions should have no bearing on the seat you're in, but I can see how you may "believe" differently. The mindset is only different to folks that are unable to think. Sure, when you start at a new carrier you don't know the ropes and plane as well as the guy in the left seat; however, if that separation doesn't plateau quickly then something is very wrong. To each their own, but I'd much rather fly with a great pilot that can make good decisions and not judge them on some no science group-thought arbitrary metric on their résumé. In my experience a great candidate has nothing to do with TPIC. TPIC is just a badge some of you guys like to wear because you're caught in that dream I mentioned earlier. Been there, done that. Time to grow up.

Time for you to Google Colgan 3407, and then think hard about what you have written.

It should have EVERYTHING to do with what seat you're in. If one can't make decisions, then one shouldn't be in the left seat. Now I'll agree that a pilot could spend years in the right seat at a regional and be successful going straight to the right seat of a major. One doesn't need TPIC to be qualified to fly at a major, but they sure as heck need to be able to make decisions.

I feel as if we are making the same point, but the sentence from your post that I highlighted seemed to stand out and disagree with said point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1678484)

That's not the point I was making. I'm saying you should be able to lead, make decisions, and be confident in your abilities in both seats. It was a reply to Aero1900 saying their is a different mindset between captain and FO. I disagree entirely and I believe assuming your roles are so different simply opens the door to accidents like Colgan, Tenerife, etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH (Post 1678445)

I mostly agree, in that TPIC is overrated, but not that it's totally arbitrary. In two equally capable applicants, the one with more experience would probably be the safer pilot to hire. There are more important things to look at than flight time; race and gender are meaningless factors for safety, and I think they should be meaningless in the hiring equation too.

Agreed. I don't mean to say that it's entirely arbitrary, just that using it solely as a deciding metric is narrow-minded. In my view experience is experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH (Post 1678445)

One was race, one was race and gender, one was nepotism.

In a safety sensitive position, I think that experience should count for more than race/gender/family. I think that the current race or gender distribution of your flight crews should have no bearing in an airline's hiring decisions.

Meh.. This position is safety sensitive, but it's not hard. If you want to go down that road why is the worst FO going to get annual raises and an upgrade the same as the best FO? Why does a senior captain only qualify for a $30k-$55k FO job at any other airline if Frontier were to fold? Why is there literally no merit based system whatsoever? From a corporate standpoint you are paid to perform a few number of repetitive tasks in some relative order over and over for the next 20-30 years (or however long your career is). Nothing is fair about this gig, but it's all mostly easy so long as you can avoid a career of furloughs. I'm totally fine with HR hiring metrics. Besides, do you really want every trip to be with a paranoid white guy in cowboy boots droning on about guns, politics, and whatever else is new on blaze.com? (I kid I kid)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH (Post 1678445)

I've been highly impressed with almost everybody we've hired since the new process started back in about 2004. With maybe two exceptions, they've had great attitudes, and will go the extra mile to help out. That's far more important to me than PIC time.

Yep. It's been a good place to work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barley (Post 1678657)

Then you and I agree. Thanks for the clarification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barley (Post 1678679)

Meh.. This position is safety sensitive, but it's not hard. If you want to go down that road why is the worst FO going to get annual raises and an upgrade the same as the best FO?

The CBA!! But seriously, I was more referring to the hiring process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barley (Post 1678679)

Besides, do you really want every trip to be with a paranoid white guy in cowboy boots droning on about guns, politics, and whatever else is new on blaze.com? .

When did we fly together?

So it looks like the late June class was 18 strong vs. the 14 we had been hearing. Does anyone know the size of the late July class, and any intel regarding August and beyond?

I just wasted 3 minutes of my life reading the last couple pages of this thread.

@sulkair,
I think july will also be 18. My buddy is in it.
@ManFlex,
No pilots are not required to clean. Our turns are so tight that some guys just do it just to get out on time. I am not sure about the FA's if they are required, but I can ask for you if you are really interested.

Back on topic.
I personally think there will be more than just July and another class.

So, on topic- Two additional planes coming online within two months.

There is one class for Jul 21 and another for the 28th. I'm in the 28th class and am ABSOLUTELY STOKED!!!!