Well said!!! And to bring up a quote from a few pages ago about only FO's posting on this...here is a Capt.

Capt. Respectfully its easy for us who have Jobs to sit and quarter back when we have

How many pilots have been out on the streets from

1. ATA
2. EOS
3. Maxjet
4. Skybus
5. Champion
6. Aloha
7. Big Sky
8. Skyway

How Much May be out on the Streets from

9. Mesa
10. Express Jet
11. Midwest
12. USA 3000
13. Continental rumour of a a reduction bid

Out on the Streets or about to be out on the streets..

So..............why are you posting on APC? Don't you have something better to do? :confused:

Gojet SUCKS and you'll be a scab forever.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY....your mommy will no longer love you. :p yeh, that's right...i said it.

I just don't get it..........Do GoJetter's (former and current) think they can rationalize with other legit regional crews? It's like a crack addict saying they can stop anytime they want. Only they believe what they are saying. No one else believes them? I just don't understand their thought process. Am I missing something:confused:

who cares if somebody works at gojets? i don't. hey... times is hard -
get work where you can get it. the majority of regional guys are 20 somethings with no family to support and few priorities:

1) being impressed with themselves.
2) fitting in with the status quo.

stand up and think for yourselves. this "brotherhood of pilots" is BS.
how many of you are willing to quit working to help out your "brother"
ya right...keep telling yourself that.
the way i see it all these regionals doing mainline flying is no different.
rationalize it any way you want.
the bar is NEVER going back up at regionals. i would be embarrassed to be 50-100 grand in debt for a job making 20 grand and away from home half the time w/ a good chance of losing that same job. unions are outdated and don't work anymore, unless you work at a profitable company...then you'll see unity. if you work for a borderline co. that might tank....no one cares. no one has a vested interest.
i used to dismiss skyhigh's ravings but there is a lot of truth to his postings.

How eloquently stated.

hey......times IS hard brother

Yea you're right ankflygy, let everyman be for themselves and stab your neighbor in the back. I'm sure that's the best way to the top and the way to gain what we as pilots need. If it wasn't for your union, if you're a pilot that is, then you'd be begging for time off and would need permission to go home, douche..

im dumbfounded by some of the logic used to support gojet. times are hard? you make 23k a year as a pilot. if times are REALLY that tough, you can probably make more money at Target and not be hated by everyone in your field of work. i mean really, who doesn't love Target?

quote-BURflyer-Yea you're right akflyguy


thanks brother, i'm glad you agree with me:D

There are proven ways that don't involve quitting to help out our pilot brethren. But airlines like go-jets, that circumvent these methods make it harder and harder for pilots EVERYWHERE to get a fair shake at things based on precedence alone.

Everyone is to blame for the regionals sucking; The original pilots back in the day that started taking the jobs for 20 an hour (I can't blame pilots now, because now most are at industry standard in terms of salary, there isn't anywhere TO GO to make more money, and regionals are THE stepping stone to the majors), the unions for having zero backbone and their own priorities in-front of the group(s) they "represent", and mainline pilots for getting too FAT, DUMB AND HAPPY in their positions (and thence shunning the RJs).

You can't blame MGMT, they've always been dirty, and always will be. Their priorities are their bottom line, PERIOD.

The success (in terms of still existing) of go-jet sets an example that managements from ALL other airlines can use / mimic to their advantage. Same with the MESAs and Colgans in the world.

There needs to be more POSITIVE things to mimic, it started early this decade (comair contract to start), but this industry is going through things it has NEVER gone through before..it's going to take a long time for any sense of normalcy.

Hang on for the ride, but there is a fiery place in H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS for the pilots of go-jet. Who put personal SHORT TERM gain in front of a wise long term decision.

sorry, that 1st post of mine was the result of years of surfing the site and not being able to post. a thousand pardons.... i will be civil from now on.
it's my opinion that a lot of guys don't formulate their own opinions. they come in hearing "gojet sucks" over and over.... so they adopt that, not because of any moral grounds but because of fear of retribution and ridicule to the opposite.

And as for letting my feet do the talking, do you have a better way of getting Turbine PIC in a 121 environment? Cuz I don't. I can't get to "your" company unless I put up with the BS "you" created at this level.

You haven't followed along in the conversation. You are just flying off the handle with a knee jerk reaction.

I agree that every regional pilot needs to take crappy jobs at crappy wages to get an opportunity to reach their ultimate goals.

What I don't agree with is taking the job that you so desperately need to gain your experience and then wanting to burn the place down because you are not happy with the wages.

As for me, I took the job for crappy pay, never complained and then got my PIC. I could no longer take it anymore so instead of yelling burn the place down, I let my feet do the talking.

WALMART.... Don't tell me that you have never gone inside walmart to buy something for less that they sell in target! That's pretty much the samething isnt it?

Overtime is frowned upon where I work, but I still pick up OT any chance I get. Who else will give me FREE money? Am I considered a scab for going against some of the pilots I work with? People don't really care that I eat off the dollar menu almost everynight, these guys are at top of the paylist. Ask yourself this, if you just finished your flight training with a 30k loan and GoJet is the only carrier hiring....will you sit out and work elsewhere because of pride? Is it a smart choice? Im not defending gojets but that's just the reality of business.....(backstabbin' is the norm)

good day :)

plenty have.

But i don't know if i'd necessarily call it pride....more like responsibility.

Why would you want to work at the worst airline out there, sit at the bottom of the seniority list, and have no QOL? There are plenty of instructor gigs out there where the pay approaches almost twice first year pay. Paying the bills wouldn't be a problem in your scenario.

But not flying that shiny jet would be :rolleyes:

What you are missing is the reality that their are guys/gals from the list below who dont give a rodents behind about what you think all they want is a JOB not everyone lives at home with mommy and daddy

And as for the Jump seat thing I read earlier. remember in a Jump seat War NO ONE WINS.... Bottom line is Gojet is Here to STAY

1. ATA
2. EOS
3. Maxjet
4. Skybus
5. Champion
6. Aloha
7. Big Sky
8. Skyway

How Much May be out on the Streets from

9. Mesa
10. Express Jet
11. Midwest
12. USA 3000
13. Continental rumour of a a reduction bid

Ask many mainline pilots and they will tell you they have never heard of GoJet nor care about them. Inform them of what truly happened.........how they stabbed TSA pilots in the back in order to fly and these same mainline folks who minutes before had little expression towards GoJet are now seeing red. There will always be some fools who try and defend or rationalize what GoJet did but bottom line is they are scum

That argument may have worked a few years ago but not now..... I am just saying that given the current state of our industry, the Majority of people at Mainline dont really care, FYI their are a few Pilots at GoJets who are furloees from American Airlines.....

Sorry but trying to wave it off by saying "that argument may have worked a few years ago" still doesn't fly and the argument is as valid today as it was last week as it was last year as it will be next year. Maybe once you start flying 121 you'll understand.

Dont make Assumtions as to what type of flying I am doing ie military 121 or otherwise Like I said *****ing and moaning is not going to help and playing the Jumpseat wars as suggested by someone ealier is not the solution bottom line is Comair felt the Same way about Chatqua about taking flying from them Express Jet is not very happy with Colgan in IAH .. and everyone hates Mesa... My point being is we all have a job to do and guess what you can do you job and move on with your life or you can work yourself up to a Cardiac for things you have no control over. if GoJets was a real SCAB airline as some say, then why didnt ALPA National Step in and make a big Stink about it.. how come you dont see anything in the ALPA magazine about this.

Oh yea your Brothers ie fellow pilots from ATA, Champion, Aloha, Maxjet, Eos bigsky, skyway and soon to be express jet and mesa appreciat your thought process, however it dont put food on the table and offer life insurance for their families that my friend is the Reality.. unfortunately our profession is a Dog Eat Dog profession.. too many time I hear or read.. My Regional is better than your regional BS.. bottom line is people will do what ever to feed their families , put shelter over their heads and GAS in their cars.. that my friend is REALITY

No my friend the reality is I don't make silly assumptions about life flying in the military because I am not a military pilot. Don't make assumptions about what you THINK might be the case about GoJet. Sorry but all the airlines you mentioned were not created as an alter-ego. Freedom A was and those pilots that jumped over there and stabbed their fellow Mesa pilots in the back STILL have the stigma of being scum. Almost all of them are still out of 121 flying because of it.
Now when it comes to "putting food on the table" as you say its never ok to do what GoJet pilots did. Sorry if you need to put food on the table then do something else. Selling drugs or being paid to off people puts food on the table but it certainly doesn't make it right or acceptable as a means to do that. And no I'm not comparing GoJet to that, just using it as an illustration. Pilots are smart people and if you can't figure out some other way of making ends meet other than alter-ego flying then you don't deserve to be in this industry. THAT my friend is the dog eat dog reality of the airline industry. Oh, and thank you for your service in the military. High regards.

My understanding is that TSA didn't agree upon the scope clause, per se. Management decided it was lucrative to take up AA flying and as such they kinda of got stuck with the 50 seat restriction. If TSA stopped flying for AA, they could fly 70 seaters all day.

The company then saw the chance to fly 70 seaters for UA and created the alter-ego to do that. So far, so good. The problem, as I understand it, is that TSA offered TSA pilots the option to fly the 70 seaters but wanted to pay sub standard wages. Instead of taking this chance and further debasing pilot status and proving to another management that we will do ANYTHING to fly, the vast majority of them said "NO". Some went over there and they are the SCABS in the highest sense of the word.

In time GoJet hired off the street. I understand the "you gotta eat", but it isn't that cut and dry because when GoJet was in its formation and through the first couple years, everyone was hiring. Why go to GoJet? And furthermore, flying isn't the only way to make money, especially in the short term, which is all it would take if there weren't scabs.

The short term hope of upgrading quickly for "my sake", has fu%$ed over many other pilots. You call this a backstabbing industry. An industry doesn't exist on its own. It is made of and comprises individual people who make choices on their own. Thus, it would be more accurate to say that this industry is made of backstabbing people. We've seen these people on this thread.

Here is the deal: If NO ONE went to GoJet, they couldn't operate and they would have HAD to have offered a reasonable compensation package.... PERIOD. The fact that some scabs went there just fueled the fire and proved to management how little we think we are worth. They are laughing all the way to the bank because of these guys.

Now that 50 seaters are going out of style and TSA is stuck in the AA scope, who gets to fly the 70 seaters? GoJet. Then who can't feed their families? The TSA pilots. Most TSA pilots would rather shove their sacks into a door jam than work for GoJet. But lets say hypothetically, they adopted the mentality of "I've got to feed my family", so they jump ship to GoJet. What has this done? Its moved the bar even lower for everyone else.

And as an extension to this thought: If pilots said to Mesa, "enough is enough, we won't work for you any more." Mesa would be forced to increase the quality over there. Because pilots have proven they will work for shiit, Mesa is the most ridiculed and hated regional there is.

Perhaps this "brotherhood of pilots" is BS. But regarding GoJet, don't forget who actually did say "NO"!

This post doesn't change the facts. And I've seen you mention a couple times in this thread to "let your feet do the talking, I did" and "It doesn't matter to me". Why are you still on this board?

Hey, denvrpilot, Chautauqua/Republic seem to have no problem flying 70 seaters on two different certificates with one seniority list. So, explain to me why hulas had to go and create an entire alter-ego airline rather than just do what Republic does? Oh, that's right, to avoid negotiating with the TSA pilot group. THAT is the problem with Gojets, not the scope thing.

A buddy of mine recently upgraded out of the E145 as FO directly into the E170 as Capt with Cha/Rep. TSA is screwed on that.

I'm a fractional guy whose only experience with GoJet was a ride home (on a coach ticket). Both the cockpit and cabin crews were very friendly towards me - upgrade to the front, "thanks for flying", and no request for a referral to my company. They all had a realistic view of their company, and hopes for a greater future.

And how lomg have you been flying ? Cause I remember when regional pilots gladly took flying from majors undercutting those pilots. I can get you intouch with them and maybe you will learn a thin or two about this industry. MD80 and 717 were replaced by regional jet or t-prop for a lower salary. But let me guess...it's not the same !

Well to some on this forum they are Scum of the earth.....If only some people will Grow up or get a hobby of some sort.. I suggest Fly Fishing...

It's amazing how this post grew to 24 pages and counting.....keep blaming the pilots...some of them had nothing to do blame the f'ing company for trying to screw their own people, some if not most of the guys that fly for GoJet are really good guys and in the end are gonna make it elsewhere....At this stage of the game and with the way the hsit is we gotta stick it out for each other...Now the Mesa guys theyre something else LOL

The scumbag pilots and the scumbag management share the blame. If the management hadn't created an alter-ego airline, it wouldn't have happened. If no one would work for them, it wouldn't have happened. I sure as hell won't let hulas on my damn jumpseat, the same goes for their scumbag pilots.

I got hired on with TSA back when everyone was hiring. Reason being was their wages weren't super sub standard (actually paid higher first year than most regionals at $22.59, and with how fast upgrades were, 2nd year pay was actually captain pay) and the upgrade time was really short, and I just needed the time to do it. I had 580/70 when I was hired, and have never failed a check at TSA. I was gonna jump ship 3 times, but skywest wouldn't interview me because I had 1000 hours, even with a degree from ERAU and worked for a 121 carrier. If I went to ATP, they would have given me an interview at 800 hours though :confused:

I stayed at TSA, got the time to upgrade, and it took me exactly 18 mos, and i took some extra time to get more winter experience.

Now, I just got downgraded from Captain back to First Officer, while people hired at Go Jets after I was hired (read JUNIOR to me)have upgraded into the CRJ-700, while I watch the 145's phase out of existance.

So much for feeding myself and my family right? Go Jets have the right to do that, but screw the TSA pilots who fought for what was right, and the new hires who did SOME research into what airline they were going into, and avoided Go Jets.

Trans States Holdings should be the same way Chataqua works. Damn ANYONE for asking management for average wages though, because they're 100% right in creating a new airline and paying pilots less than what another pilot group was asking for who deserved that flying (and yes, TSA pilots DID deserve that flying because of our performance that United liked, which is WHY they asked us to fly 700's)

Hmmmmmmmmm and Just who wins in a Jumpseat War ..let me tell you who NO ONE..you are not only hurting the gojets pilots but every pilot in your Company who jumpseat.. for work Ill say it again NO ONE WINS in a JUMPSEAT WAR...its as simple as that.

Guess again genius. Been here longer than $19 an hour would warrant.

I'd be hard pressed to find anyone at TSA who would actually want to ride on a Gojet jumpseat. So really, we're not hurting anyone. Hell, I know I'd spend a night sleeping on the floor in ORD before I'd ride a hojet flight home.

Its not our contract that doesn't allow us to fly 70 seat airplanes, it is the American pilots' contract.

I'm not following. No where in our contract does it say we cannot fly 70 seat airplanes. The scope agreement between the APA and American specifies the fact that its regional carriers cannot operate the equipment. It really has nothing to do with our contract.