SkyHigh

WatchThis,

I do have experience. If the 737 was so great then why are RJ's taking over the domestic short hop markets? If scope clauses were done away with then the RJ would grow to 70 to 90 seats and 737 sales would slow to a trickle. Why don't you look into it? Horizon earns significantly more per seat mile than Alaska Airlines. After Delta and Northwest go under you will see Regionals jump in on those markets. Why don't you try and address my other comments? Why do pilots who fly a 737 expect twice the pay of an RJ Capt? I think 737 pay will slowly sink to match.

SkyHigh

LAfrequentflyer

not to change the subject too much...scope clause- pray explain to the novice...also, i hear a lot about pilots in the majors going back to regionals as captains - is this due to contracts / ALPA...

thanks all...

SkyHigh

Major Airlines that have regionals as feeders put a "Scope" clause in contracts that prevent the smaller company from acquiring similar aircraft to prevent competition. For example, most Scope clauses will not allow the feeder to have aircraft with more than 55 seats. Lets say that Horizon bought RJ's with 70 to 90 seats then they would effectively have a 737. This is why the regioanls are growing at such a fast rate and the majors are shrinking. It is much cheaper to operate a newly designed and efficient plane that the workers will operate for less than half of their peers at the parent company. If the scope clauses were eliminated then the regional could acquire even 737's and operate them at a much lower cost. Independence air did that very thing.

SkyHigh

Orca

Sky High...

What have you been smoken boy? It has you Sky High!

Check the cost per seat mile on the rj and a 37... The rj's are getting bigger and will be the same size before you know it... Will the pay come up? Or will people like yourself down play what your worth and keep the wage rage going in the sh*tcan!

We are pilots.... We fly the planes..... They need us.... Think about it!

The smallest commuter captain or FO is worth more than 85 grand! Unwash your Sky High brain!

SkyHigh

Hey don't get mad at me. I just report the news. If it were up to me we all would make over 100K. I feel that wages are going down and will keep sliding for many reasons. Thanks to student loans paying for flight training and the military training so many we have a growing glut of new pilots on the market. This new generation of pilots was raised on the concept that they would never earn much. These people are prepared to do the same job as you for less than half, and will be happy. Additionally consumers will not pay very much for a ticket anymore. These two things translate into a lowering pay scale for pilots and everyone else in aviation. RJ pay will not come up. Every time an RJ rolls off the line it takes the place of a 737. I don't understand what keeps the pay as high as it is now. In closing, they don't need us, they have a growing army of RJ kids who will do the job at less than half the price. Everyone has jet time these days.

SkyHigh

WannaBleftseat

the original article is complete bullux. among an aviation audience we all know he is full of it but what is almost scary is that opinions, even the especially uneducated and ignorant ones are the ones that seem to get the most attention from the public. as pilots we arent exactly fans of low cost carriers but although completely unfounded and slightly rediciulous articles like this could help the majors in the long run. i mean if an article is going to change the publics opinion on whether or not they have loyalty to the major airlines or not and in doing so it takes a cheap shot at our... "glamorous" pay which i havent seen then screw it. i would rather hurt the LCC's and have some ignorant turd "think" we are overpaid then have the LCC's continue to thrive (thrive? jetblue might not post a profit).

as for the comments that airline pilots will never get paid a high wage again i think it is kind of ridiculous. The economy is in a slump and people are forced to take pay cuts. when the economy gets better and companies start turning profits thats when pay increases happen. young pilots or not we all know what our educations cost to become pilots. make 20 grand a year for your first year? i dont know any self respecting person with a 4 yr degree and ratings that would say "wow this is awesome!" pilot pay will eventually bounce back up. its really a matter of time. It might take a few strikes from pilot groups to do it but it will happen. pilots are generally kind of egotistical and if given the right economic climate and industry position... will want to get paid. it has to happen. skyhigh says that people arent willing to pay more then they are... 50 bucks each way between EWR and FLL? i dont know that many people who travel who couldnt swing more then that for a ticket. Let the airlines follow the lemming like march to bankruptcy. eventually they will be profitable and we will get paid.... i hope

SkyHigh

WannaBleftseat



Man ! Where have you been? This site is full of people proclaiming that pilots today are suppose to be here for the blessed love of aviation. There are little RJ kids who will gladly proclaim their devoted love of the job and how thankful they are for the 20K. Pay may come up a little but if you step back and look at airline pay it has been steadily going down for the last 20 years. What is to stop it? The unions are falling apart. There are eager young pilots with RJ time everywhere. A price diffrence of just a few cents can cause companies to loose sales. Airlines are in a race to the bottom and the one with the cheapest costs will win.


SkyHigh

WannaBleftseat

how long do you think the race to the bottom can continue? i am in the same boat as all these other RJ pilots and none of us are happy about 20 grand a year. i love what i do and am content for now but 20 grand a year? thats 3 grand above poverty level for someone that has a 4 yr degree. times cant continue as they have been and i dont believe theres people eager to earn 20 grand a year. sure if you have little to no TT i would take a job flying a jet. who wouldnt. but once you get the time??? 20- 30 doesnt look so great. A 20 yr decline in pilot pay? thats kind of questionable. there were less pilots back then and they were compensated well but what about the senior captains flying transcon during the mid-late 90's ... i dont know numbers but i dont think you could say it was declining. pilot unions aren't doing so hot but i am looking at it from the point of view that the pendulum has come full swing towards unions vs management. it will come back to management which is what i think is happening now. unions although neccessary in the past could be on their way out. This industry although it is in the ****ter now i dont think it is down for much longer. Hopefully the restructuring bankrupt airlines can do something. one way or the other the industry next year this time is going to be much much different from where it is now

mike734

Why stop there? How is that number significant? Do you really think airlines can keep quality pilots and pay 85K? I don't. I'm already leaving the industry because the race to the bottom. I don't see it getting better in the next 15 years. Maybe the only thing to save our salaries and work conditions will be the massive retirements coming down the pike.

SkyHigh

Mike,

You and I come from a different generation from these new kids. We grew up in the industry expecting a certain return for our efforts. The latest generation came after 9-11 and only hope to see a livable wage someday. What is there to stop it? There are no pilot supply problems. It is harder to find a good ramper than a pilot these days. Horizon will bend over backwards to keep the rampers happy but feels confident treating the pilots like dirt. I flew for National Airlines and Captain pay was 55K. The FO's earned 35 to 42K. They were doing most of their hiring during the busy times of the late 1990's and they still had experienced pilots lined up around the block to fly the 757. I am sure you could start a new company today flying any Boeing and you would have type rated experienced applicants fighting over a Captain seat at 40K per year. I would be standing in line.

SkyHigh