Ukraine conflict
12-08-2023, 01:52 PM
#1862
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,323
You are certainly entitled to post any GOOD news for Ukraine you can find. You did, after all, start this thread. Although your wildly optomistic David driving out Goliath predictions including the likely outcome of the Spring Offensive certainly seem to have been off the mark.
I didn't say it first but it is still true:
Ukraine has always been at a tremendous disadvantage in logistics and manpower. The nations of Western Europe have been underfunding their own militaries and neglecting their own military industrial base for a half century now and are riven by their own national politics. In fairness, our own defense industrial base isn't in that great a shape either. That's not to say that a good little man can't ever beat a good big man in a fight, but that generally isn't the way to bet.
I didn't say it first but it is still true:
Ukraine has always been at a tremendous disadvantage in logistics and manpower. The nations of Western Europe have been underfunding their own militaries and neglecting their own military industrial base for a half century now and are riven by their own national politics. In fairness, our own defense industrial base isn't in that great a shape either. That's not to say that a good little man can't ever beat a good big man in a fight, but that generally isn't the way to bet.
1. I never said they will, (a post may exist a loooonnngggg time ago, but i cant find it), i said i hope. I did say they have initiative and it will be interesting to see what happens. I am quoted here saying that the best outcome is a negotiated settlement at the current lines. Everything ive posted that is not a response to your right wing fear porn has been sources by onyx and isw.
2. im not obligated to post anything. I don’t initiate posts that are subjective media pieces cherry picked to drive a narrative. Since YOU are so insecure in your life that you feel the need to come back here time and again to post subjective pieces for a thread that no one partakes in, YOU are responsible for being balanced. If you cannot post the gains and losses for ukraine in the political, strategic, and tactical arenas, then dont get butthurt when called on it like the standard boomer baby.
3. You are a child bumbling through your right wing fear porn life. If you had an ounce of integrity you would revisit the numerous subjective pieces youve posted here that either aren’t true, or turned out to be incorrect upon further review. You are literally not worth engaging, particularly when you get trounced in an argument and then throw out red herrings like “you lied about casualties in ww2, on purpose”. Its just ridiculous childish behavior. I pity you.
we made an agreement to back ukraine when we took their strategic assets, and now one party is using support as a hostage. We look like, and are, a pathetic broken nation due lack of adults in the room, you included. You lament resources for ukraine, but wont support giving resources to Ukraine. Its a very interesting and immature set of mental gymnastics your fear riddled brain goes through.
keep posting colonel, it will be sure to keep the long dark lonely night you face at bay. Itll be fun to see if you break your record at 6 posts in a row with no one answering.
Its always fun watching you flounder around. Trust me when i tell you i am laughing my ass off everytime you post, imagining your fevered little brain smashing the keyboard like a desperate troll. Thank you
Last edited by Hubcapped; 12-08-2023 at 02:08 PM.
12-09-2023, 04:07 PM
#1864
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,717
Logistics, logistics, logistics…
A Ukrainian soldier said he stopped shelling small Russian units because his brigade was running out of US-provided artillery ammunition, per The Times of London.
"When it's two or three soldiers, I'm not shooting any more; only when it's a critical situation, say, ten guys close to our infantry, we will work," Sergeant Taras "Fizruk" told the newspaper.
The 31-year-old mortar gunner said that he and his comrades from the 47th Mechanized Brigade "had ten times more ammunition over the summer." per the newspaper.
"American rounds come in batches of almost identical weights, which makes it easier to correct fire, with very few duds. Now we have shells from all over the world with different qualities, and we only get 15 for three days. Last week, we got a batch full of duds," said the soldier.
"When it's two or three soldiers, I'm not shooting any more; only when it's a critical situation, say, ten guys close to our infantry, we will work," Sergeant Taras "Fizruk" told the newspaper.
The 31-year-old mortar gunner said that he and his comrades from the 47th Mechanized Brigade "had ten times more ammunition over the summer." per the newspaper.
"American rounds come in batches of almost identical weights, which makes it easier to correct fire, with very few duds. Now we have shells from all over the world with different qualities, and we only get 15 for three days. Last week, we got a batch full of duds," said the soldier.
The lack of shells, Fizruk said, has hampered his unit's control over the northern flank of Avdviivka in eastern Ukraine and their ability to shoot at Russian troops.
"We should be controlling our sector from 4km away, so we can kill a few hundred Russian soldiers before they get to our infantry, and we only take a few wounded," he told the newspaper, adding: "But without ammunition, we can't."
The US and NATO allies have struggled to keep up with Ukraine's demands for artillery shells and ammunition, with Western ammunition stockpiles depleting.
Ukrainian forces have been burning through artillery shells and ammunition at a rate of about 7,000 rounds a day, according to figures from Estonia's defense ministry.
And Western supplies are now at the "bottom of the barrel," Admiral Rob Bauer of the Netherlands, who chairs NATO's Military Committee, said at a Warsaw Security Forum meeting in October.
"We need large volumes. The just-in-time, just-enough economy we built together in 30 years in our liberal economies is fine for a lot of things — but not the armed forces when there is a war ongoing," he said, per the BBC.
The issue has been compounded by Republicans in Congress, who are threatening to withhold crucial aid to Ukraine, including ammunition, a defining element in frontline combat.
Andriy Yermak, the head of Ukraine's presidential office, said that Congress' delay in providing aid to Ukraine would "very likely make it impossible to continue liberating territory and create a high risk of losing the war," per The New Voice of Ukraine.
Newly committed aid to Ukraine reached a "new low" between August and October, with a 90% drop compared to the same period in 2022, according to a report compiled by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy.
The Kiel Institute, which has tracked aid promised and sent to Ukraine, said in an update on Thursday that while the new US aid package was delayed to next year, the EU's promise to supply one million rounds of ammunition has stalled.
Israel's war with Hamas could also divert tens of thousands of artillery rounds initially slated for Ukraine, Axios reported in October.
Despite having German Leopard 2 tanks and American Bradley M1 fighting vehicles, Fizruk told The Times of London that his unit couldn't break through Russia's defensive lines without artillery shells.
To make up for the shortfall, Fizruk told the newspaper that his unit is now using unarmed drones to scare Russian troops away and fundraising for weapons they can buy.
"We should be controlling our sector from 4km away, so we can kill a few hundred Russian soldiers before they get to our infantry, and we only take a few wounded," he told the newspaper, adding: "But without ammunition, we can't."
The US and NATO allies have struggled to keep up with Ukraine's demands for artillery shells and ammunition, with Western ammunition stockpiles depleting.
Ukrainian forces have been burning through artillery shells and ammunition at a rate of about 7,000 rounds a day, according to figures from Estonia's defense ministry.
And Western supplies are now at the "bottom of the barrel," Admiral Rob Bauer of the Netherlands, who chairs NATO's Military Committee, said at a Warsaw Security Forum meeting in October.
"We need large volumes. The just-in-time, just-enough economy we built together in 30 years in our liberal economies is fine for a lot of things — but not the armed forces when there is a war ongoing," he said, per the BBC.
The issue has been compounded by Republicans in Congress, who are threatening to withhold crucial aid to Ukraine, including ammunition, a defining element in frontline combat.
Andriy Yermak, the head of Ukraine's presidential office, said that Congress' delay in providing aid to Ukraine would "very likely make it impossible to continue liberating territory and create a high risk of losing the war," per The New Voice of Ukraine.
Newly committed aid to Ukraine reached a "new low" between August and October, with a 90% drop compared to the same period in 2022, according to a report compiled by the Kiel Institute for the World Economy.
The Kiel Institute, which has tracked aid promised and sent to Ukraine, said in an update on Thursday that while the new US aid package was delayed to next year, the EU's promise to supply one million rounds of ammunition has stalled.
Israel's war with Hamas could also divert tens of thousands of artillery rounds initially slated for Ukraine, Axios reported in October.
Despite having German Leopard 2 tanks and American Bradley M1 fighting vehicles, Fizruk told The Times of London that his unit couldn't break through Russia's defensive lines without artillery shells.
To make up for the shortfall, Fizruk told the newspaper that his unit is now using unarmed drones to scare Russian troops away and fundraising for weapons they can buy.
12-10-2023, 07:22 AM
#1865
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,550
I'm fine with that, but at this point I'm not fine with cutting off material support as a means of coercing UA to dance to our tune. Eventually perhaps but not yet, the people writing the checks do get a vote.
12-10-2023, 08:08 AM
#1866
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,717
And I guess I just find it distasteful (as well as expensive) to give the Ukraine just enough to keep the fight going that is doing far more damage to Ukraine than it is to Russia with nobody really wanting to give them weapons that might widen the war and actually defeat Russia.especially when the rest of Europe remains feckless as usual.
12-10-2023, 10:29 AM
#1867
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 756
Even with being given support in measured increments they stopped the Russian invasion and have retaken territory.
Your comment on continue dying displays deep ignorance of Russians and what they will do if they prevail in occupying Ukraine. With their view that Ukraine is Little Russia, those who insist on being Ukrainian will suffer immensely. As, was it Solovyov?, stated....those who claim that there is a Ukraini language or Nation will be eliminated, be it 5,000 or 5 million. Whatever it takes to reunite them with Mother Russia.
The massive dying would start after a Russian short term victory. Bucha should serve as a warning to the world.
12-10-2023, 10:30 AM
#1868
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 756
12-10-2023, 10:40 AM
#1869
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 756
Or divvy up the country to its warring factions by international agreement like we did with the former Yugoslavia. Although that sets a precedent for Moldova. Of course I guess that precedent was already set by Kaliningrad as well.
And I guess I just find it distasteful (as well as expensive) to give the Ukraine just enough to keep the fight going that is doing far more damage to Ukraine than it is to Russia with nobody really wanting to give them weapons that might widen the war and actually defeat Russia.especially when the rest of Europe remains feckless as usual.
And I guess I just find it distasteful (as well as expensive) to give the Ukraine just enough to keep the fight going that is doing far more damage to Ukraine than it is to Russia with nobody really wanting to give them weapons that might widen the war and actually defeat Russia.especially when the rest of Europe remains feckless as usual.
(as a side note, to date, Europe has given a similar amount of aid as the USA whilst having a smaller aggregate economy than the USA)
Yours, and others, advocacy of cutting aid to Ukraine gives the political capital that is leveraged by some in congress to block giving Ukraine what she needs.
It is somewhat dishonest to press this advocacy, and then point out how it makes it more difficult for Ukraine to successfully wage a conventional war.
12-10-2023, 11:35 AM
#1870
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,407
So now you support giving Ukraine the material it needs to defeat Russia?
(as a side note, to date, Europe has given a similar amount of aid as the USA whilst having a smaller aggregate economy than the USA)
Yours, and others, advocacy of cutting aid to Ukraine gives the political capital that is leveraged by some in congress to block giving Ukraine what she needs.
It is somewhat dishonest to press this advocacy, and then point out how it makes it more difficult for Ukraine to successfully wage a conventional war.
(as a side note, to date, Europe has given a similar amount of aid as the USA whilst having a smaller aggregate economy than the USA)
Yours, and others, advocacy of cutting aid to Ukraine gives the political capital that is leveraged by some in congress to block giving Ukraine what she needs.
It is somewhat dishonest to press this advocacy, and then point out how it makes it more difficult for Ukraine to successfully wage a conventional war.
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