funny that you even twist things so as to blame greta thunberg.

I mean, I don’t like her or her message….. but the blame falls on putin.

You realize that right? putin ordered his russian military to invade Ukraine.

Can you say that…… you know, the truth?


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all facilitated by Joe and European leaders frittering away sanctions against the Nordstream pipeline.

The war was basically avoidable had there been any form of common sense coming from Biden or the European leaders. Trump warned them, they pretty much laughed it off. Unless the video of Trump sitting down in a meeting specifically warning them was just another “cheap fake”?

 

You misread who I am blaming. Of course Putin ordered his military to invade Ukraine. After 35 years of Western Europe fecklessness in severely underfunding their militaries NATO deterrence failed to deter I’m. Do you seriously believe there was no cause and effect working there? A deterrence that had held the USSR in check for half a century - won the Cold War - disappeared at least in part because Europe wanted to spend their defense money on something else. I believe Greta is an obnoxious little twit, but no - she didn’t cause deterrence to fail. The nations of Western Europe did. Putin gave the orders, but they certainly enabled him.
Do you deny the truth of that?


Do you recall shortly after the invasion the German Defense minister said they only had two days worth of ammunition? And no facilities to store more even if they had it? Does that seem like readiness to you?

 

Stay out of the deep end of the pool vaxed.
While I think Cargo is fundamentally in error on some of his views about Ukraine and Russia and geopolitics, he has some reasoning to his positions and has some knowledge.
Your comments regarding this war are so beyond reality that they enter into "you're not even wrong" territory. (My apologies to the physicist I plagarized)
Sit this one out.

 

You can go back to the seizure of Crimea. Obama tossed out some token sanctions, but wouldn’t even supply offensive arms. And Western Europe continued to buy cheap Russian gas, while promising to get their defense spending up to 2% in a decade or so, and generally failing to even do that. Three years into the war many major Western European economies were still struggling to get to 2%. Little Estonia at 3% does not offset Spain and Italy being below 2%. Besides, you don’t repair 35 years of underfunding in three years.

 

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It’s like an old man yelling at a cloud.






Completely irrelevant.

While academics might debate budget levels in 1992, that doesn’t change the fact that blame for this war falls on one person…… putin.

It also has NOTHING to do with the current reality that Ukraine has embarrassed russia for 3 years and now the US is sending advanced weapons systems over to fight russia and Trump got the Europeans to pay for them!

putin is scared and seeking an exit. His terms are ridiculous so it will be interesting to see what happens.


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What you seem to fail to understand is that this isn’t the work of one man - any one man. Or thar Putin although clearly not anyone I would want in my family (and I can say the same for Trump and many other politicians) is by Russian standards somewhat of a moderate. Getting rid of Putin woukdn’t necessarily make this situation any better and might make it worse. But if Europe won’t do its job we aren’t going to deter Putin or whoever eventually replaces him.

It’s Europe. It’s been at war for thousands of years. If it doesn’t get its act together US taxpayers are going to eventually decide, “Not our circus, not our monkeys.”

 

You shifting blame away from putin for invading Ukraine is absolutely bonkers levels of mental brainwashing.


Do you blame the slaves for slavery?

Do you blame the Jews for the Holocaust?


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You believing that other potential Russian leaders wouldn’t have done the same thing had they been in charge is totally bonkers. And like MOST Americans, I’m far more concerned about domestic problems than I am about European ones.

Europe has more than adequate population and financial resources to protect Europe against Russia - whoever happens to be the Russian leader - SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO USE THEM. I do not regard them opting to spend their resources on other things as creating an obligation on our part to do the job for them.

False equivalencies with slavery (which the Europeans also had - especially in their African colonies - or of the Holocaust (which IIRC was lead by Germany and Austria with the assistance of fascist parties throughout Europe) was yet another example of the fecklessness of European politics:


It wasn’t just Jeff Davis that is responsible for slavery, it isn’t just Hitler that is responsible for the Holocaust (and that was our legal position at the post WW2 war trials) and it isn’t just Putin that let this war happen, however happy such a superficial belief makes other people who share that belief feel.

Do you believe WWI was ENTIRELY the fault of the Bosnian who killed Archduke Ferdinand?

 

ask yourself how the war has been funded by Russia? Exactly why did Putin pick the period of time to attack? And ask yourself what is a major catalyst for Putin coming to the table now. ( if he indeed does make any sort of real effort to keep any promises).

There comes a point where deflecting from common sense no longer is a valid argument. You can quote all sorts of historic people, get into the weeds of past military and diplomatic policy making, but the act of Putin attacking when he did wasn’t because of some several decades old policies. He saw an opportunity at a specific point in time. Ask yourself why, and did he view the USA as week at that period of time?