Senior Skipper

I was just on JetCareers, and a user proposed a National Longevity List in lieu of a National Seniority List. I have to say this makes good sense to me. What are the opinions on APC? Why hasn't this been pushed? The NSL has it's drawbacks. What drawbacks would exist for a Longevity list?

Here's part of the post from user WalterSobchak:

I think we need National Longevity not so much seniority. Just like Teaching. They all have different unions but you get credit for your years of service. So if you do get furloughed at Airline A you go to the bottom of the seniority list at Airline B, but start at the payscale for your corresponding year. National Seniority would be retarded. Are you going to go to some one else's airline and bump them down because they picked a better company than you did to start?

Slice

Never gonna happen...mgmt would never go for it. You'd need a true 'union' to make it work. Email Prater and tell us what he says.

FlyJSH

hmmm and if it DID happen, those furloughed would either not get hired because they are too expensive or be forced to resign his/her longevity number.

hotshot

Looking at de727ups's profile?

Led Zep

There was your first mistake.

My opinion? Both options suck.

Senior Skipper

I'm actually a little surprised about the less than enthusiastic responses.

Slice, you say they won't go for it. Of course I don't expect them to got for something that cuts into their bank accounts (who would), but wouldn't you agree that you have to fight for something if you really want it?

FlyJSH, I see what you're saying, but I doubt it'd be that bad. They'll eventually have to hire the qualified pilots at the rate they deserve. Think about it, if a hospital told a doctor fresh out of residency training that he'd have to accept wages and duty hours only marginally better than the miserable wages he's paid in residency, do you think they'd be able to get any doctors to work in that hospital?

Led Zep, why do both options suck?

Guys I'm trying to figure out why a longevity list would be bad. I can only see good right now. Is there something obvious that I'm missing here? It seems like something to push for. The profession has changed so much (for the worse) since 30 or so years ago, why not try to make a major change for the better?

I'm still only a private pilot right now, and I'm trying to understand why the airline guys seem so resigned to the idea of change.

Rama

It would work against those with many years in. Why would management hire a "new" guy at a 10 or 15 year payscale when you could get a qualified guy on 5 year pay? Would working at Mesa or somewhere similar for 10 years make someone that valuable as a newhire into widebody longhaul flying? Besides getting one group of pilots to agree on anything is near impossible, trying 20 or so pilot groups will never happen.

Led Zep

O.K., I guess I could elaborate.

First, I'm not a fan of anything that has to do with ALPA. I have never been a part of ALPA, but from what I see as an outsider is nothing more than a large, over-bloated inefficient organization whose elected officials are more like career politicians than servants for the organization.

Second, and more to the point with a longevity list. The industry always has and always will be very competitive for jobs. It is all who you know in addition to what you know. It may not always be fair, but that is just the way it is. You cannot force a company to hire strictly from a particular list.

You are paid what you negotiate, not what you think you deserve. Jetcareers' attitude is that "everyone is a winner". In the real world it is very much different.

This comparison is apples-to-oranges in nature. First, doctors are not part of a union with a structured pay scale. Second, most doctors go into practice for themselves. Third, when a doctor is hired by a hospital, his or her salary is usually based on what the hospital and the physician agree on what that person's skills are worth. Good talent is hard to find, and most organizations are willing to pay top dollar for the best talent.

Pilots on the other hand are much different. Our "residency" is typically that time spent building hours and can be as little as a few months or last many years. The major difference between us and a residency program is that the residency is part of a doctor's required training and it is for a specified time frame.