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Old 12-03-2005, 10:23 AM   #1  
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Default How much should a pilot be paid? Pt. II

This is a continuation of the thread " So how much should a pilot be paid?" Thread split for admin purposes only.
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Old 12-04-2005, 06:05 AM   #2  
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Somewhere in the throws of the 140+ post thread ... someone/someones was/were making comparisons to doctors/lawdogs, etc & made a comment to the effect no other profession/occupation allows for pilot pay, even today's pilot pay.

Well, JB Hunt begs to differ. 12 months of over-the-road driving has one making as much as this "legacy" FO. GED-only.

I know of two different couples who own their own/two Chicken Express fast food joints. They are earning 150K/year.

Both of these two different jobs require LOTS of time to be put in to make the advertised money ... but the fact is they do not require the schooling & they do not have the responsibility anywhere NEAR that of an airline pilot or mechanic.

Those dozer/track hoe operators we see at the airports are earning as much as any legacy FO. Heck, I had a friend of mine who ownes/operates an excavation business do a little "grubbing" for me on my small place. He paid his newhire well enough to put him w/in 20% of my W2! ... again, he's spending 10-12 hours on that dozer/day, but he can get it! (my buddy charged me cost for the dozer)

You apologists on here who suggest 65 CA/45 FO are looney tunes.

The profession has already watered down to the point the "top end" "regionals" (American Eagle, et al) are having to take the 300/1 wonders b/c their pay is so paultry & the 'payoff' is hardly what it was --- or should be.

AE has now become the first rung on the professional pilot ladder rather than the last before steppin on the roof (major carrier).

Maybe this profession is going the way of the Stagecoach driver, too. Maybe the system is going to become so "idiot" proof that we really will be able to put dogs/monkeys in the cockpits.

I don't think that will last very long ... but then again, there's always been a concerted effort to press labor wages down.

Al
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Old 12-05-2005, 08:41 PM   #3  
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Al, who said 65/45 for CA/FO?

Are they for real?
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Old 12-05-2005, 08:50 PM   #4  
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Originally Posted by B757200ER
Al, who said 65/45 for CA/FO?

Are they for real?

Maybe those numbers refer to ages?
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Old 12-05-2005, 09:36 PM   #5  
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POSTED BY SKYHIGH:
I think you have the wrong idea about the regionals and the airlines in general. The job is more difficult and the pay is lower in most cases than you mentioned. Usually it takes 20 years to get to the 80K you referred too. I am out of aviation because I had to. I would much rather be flying but you can't support a family on what most jobs pay. I'd keep a good relationship with your aunt if I were you. The odds are that sooner or later you will end up doing something else besides aviation. Your concept of the industry is totally unrealistic.
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My view might be a little on the "unrealistic", and on the "idealistic" side, but I have only stated the salaries of those I know working in the aviation industry as pilots.

As I mentioned earlier; everybody knows someone, who knows someone, etc., who makes more than a pilot, or more than a doctor, etc., doing some odd job, whether it be as a salesman, real estate agent, or owning their own company, etc. Those people are not your everyday, typical person. Most people work in your typical, average career field, not owning their own business, but maybe working for the person who owns that business, etc. I know many people who are very educated, have great degrees, are working in good careers, and have been for 20 years, and are making $80K per year. I happen to know a couple of regional CAs in their 6th years or so, and they are making around $70-$80K per year. The guy making the $80K does fly 100+ hours per month, however. This does not mean everybody makes that kind of money in their 10th or so (FO+CA time) year flying.

My whole point is not that I disagree that pilot should be paid more, it is that if you compare 'average' pay for pilots to what pay others are making in most other careers fields, they are not 'underpaid'.

If you look at the training, etc., that a pilot has to go through, and the nature of the job, than I will agree they are underpaid. The way some people talk, you would thinks pilots are making next to nothing, and although for a first year FO, that may be the case, it is no the case for most pilots, atleast the ones I know, once you have been in the industry for some time.

Another piece of info. that may help clear some things up; I live in the South. Living expenses here are less than most other parts of the country. An $80K salary here, may be 'worth' more than a $100K salary in other parts of the country. I do realize living expenses are much more in other parts of the country, and that is something I need to keep in mind. Some of the salaries you all are listing are very good salaries in the South, while it may not be in the Northeast, for example.
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Old 12-06-2005, 08:18 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisH
Another piece of info. that may help clear some things up; I live in the South. Living expenses here are less than most other parts of the country. An $80K salary here, may be 'worth' more than a $100K salary in other parts of the country. I do realize living expenses are much more in other parts of the country, and that is something I need to keep in mind. Some of the salaries you all are listing are very good salaries in the South, while it may not be in the Northeast, for example.
Also keep in mind besides the training is that a pilot is always one violation or medical burp from a career ender. And the age 60 retirement is hugh (although maybe not for long). My brother-in-law is a pharmicist and thinks I make a lot. Then I explain I must stop working at age 60 and he can continue till he is 80 yrs. Those last 20 years are his highest earnings and most productive while I must stop or find another career starting at the bottom again. A pilot's earning years are so much shorter than your average worker especially when you figure in the early year pay as a commuter then the top end getting cut off by furlough, medical, or age 60 manditory retirement.
I don't think the total earning capacity of a professional pilot is all that good.
 
Old 12-06-2005, 10:22 PM   #7  
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Originally Posted by banger
Also keep in mind besides the training is that a pilot is always one violation or medical burp from a career ender. And the age 60 retirement is hugh (although maybe not for long). My brother-in-law is a pharmicist and thinks I make a lot. Then I explain I must stop working at age 60 and he can continue till he is 80 yrs. Those last 20 years are his highest earnings and most productive while I must stop or find another career starting at the bottom again. A pilot's earning years are so much shorter than your average worker especially when you figure in the early year pay as a commuter then the top end getting cut off by furlough, medical, or age 60 manditory retirement.
I don't think the total earning capacity of a professional pilot is all that good.
I do understand that. Many people, however, do not continue to work to the age of 80, or even close, especially in career fields like pharmacy, where pay is very good from the beginning.

Also, the age limit is 60 as far a retirement from flying for the airlines, but if I understand correctly, this age 60 rule does not apply to corporate or charter pilots. Corporate pilots can make six figure salaries, especially if they fly for a large company, and still fly past the age of 60. Also, I know someone who flew for a major, and retired a number of years ago. He now flies charter for a local charter company.

The above brings to mind; this thread has focused primarily on airline pilots, but what about charter and corporate pilots? Many of them make as much or more than airline pilots, and start making a good bit more. Someone on this board mentioned that he flies a King Air 200, right seat, about 200 hours per year, and makes a good bit more than a regional FO. A good friend of mine got a job flying C210s, and he was making more than a regional FO, however, he left that job to go fly for Eagle. There are good pilot jobs out there, outside of the airline industry, that can pay very well, and allow you to work past age 60. I am no saying these jobs are abundant, but they are there. There are other routes than the airlines, if it really is that bad to some of you.
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Old 12-07-2005, 04:08 AM   #8  
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CHrisH

I agree with you. Pilots are not under paid. I think there is still a lot of room left for pay to slide downwards. The job has too much apeal and the training is too easy to get these days. A career in the airlines is becoming more like a working hobby. The paycheck just helps to offset some of the expenses.

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Old 12-07-2005, 07:09 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banger
Also keep in mind besides the training is that a pilot is always one violation or medical burp from a career ender. And the age 60 retirement is hugh (although maybe not for long). My brother-in-law is a pharmicist and thinks I make a lot. Then I explain I must stop working at age 60 and he can continue till he is 80 yrs. Those last 20 years are his highest earnings and most productive while I must stop or find another career starting at the bottom again. A pilot's earning years are so much shorter than your average worker especially when you figure in the early year pay as a commuter then the top end getting cut off by furlough, medical, or age 60 manditory retirement.
I don't think the total earning capacity of a professional pilot is all that good.

I dont know about you guys...but I dont think I have much interest working beyond 60...hell I hope I can retire around 45-50.
 
Old 12-07-2005, 08:18 AM   #10  
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Here is another one for ya... 6th year ATC guy/gall can make over 100K per year! The average controller makes 156K per year!!! THE AVERAGE!!! How much training does that take!!!! Get a Gov Job... No more worries!

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