atpwannabe

You know, I decided to start this thread just to get an idea and to give those who are still flying, about to be furloughed, those furloughed, those who are just finished training and are looking for work, and for those who just started training and what they are expecting in 2-3 years...a chance express, vent, or however you wish to term it how they see things for themselves in say.....3-5 years or so.

I'm asking for responses from everyone that wishes to post. It doesn't matter if you're with the Majors, Regionals, Cargo (I'd love to hear from you guys), Corporate, Part 135 or Foreign. In addition, I'm asking that each of us refrain from analyzing, castigating, be critical of, or denegrate what someone else has posted. Again, I ask that you make every effort not to comment on what someone else has posted. If you want to make multiple comments pertaining to your own situation, then cool. But please, no mud slinging, name calling, trashing of an airline or anything of the sort.

With that said.....here's my take on what I see for myself:


I have started ground school in my initial flight training here in WPB, FL. I plan on leaving for Ari-Ben in about a month or so. My plans are to progress through their Pro Pilot Program at a rate that is comfortable to me. That means going from the latter stages of PPL or INST to MEI; then instruct and then hopefully enter the job market and secure an FO position on a KA 200/350. This is the first phase of my plan. I can "see" myself accomplishing this in as little as 12-18 months. I've placed my desire to fly for ASA or maybe another regional on the back burner for now, but as the time approaches where I meet and/or exceed their hirining minimums, I look at what options I have at that time.

The second phase of my plan is to continue to fly for hire in a turbine a/c(regional), or turboprop a/c and hopefully get typed in a turbine a/c within the same company. Now I know that this is going to take some researching to find a company that fits latter part of this phase of my plan. They are out there and what I believe I have to do is to remain patient and perservere and position myself so that what I've hoped for will manifest itself.

The third and final phase is to build my PIC, ME, turbine, turboprop, & TT so eventually I'm able to get on with either Delta, FedEx, UPS or some really sweet Corporate gig. Although I'm 47, I see myself accomplishing all of this by the age of 52. At this time, that would afford me a 13 year career at any one of the immediate aforementioned carriers or the corporate gig.

How am I to accomplish all this when things are looking so bleak you ask? Because I'm determined and confident in my ability to do so. My mind is made up. I will not allow or I will do what it takes to minimze any issues, drama, distractions, discouragement or interference with the progression of my plans from any one.......that includes, parents, siblings, ex-wife, fellow pilots and yes.....myself. I have to know beyond a shadow of doubt that I'm committed to seeing this through to the end. Btw, I come out of flight training with zero debt. Am I lucky? No....I'm blessed and very grateful and thankful for being in that position. In addition, I'm a firm believer in that there is a time, place, and a season for everything.

It's my time and my season.






atp

Diver Driver

Any airline you work for that flies internationally (Canada/Bahamas/Mex included) will have to type rate you in order to be in line with ICAO requirements. If you are an FO, it will be a Second in Command (SIC) type. The SIC type on the back of my license looks like this:

XII Ratings
Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single & Multiengine Land; Instrument Airplane
CL-65

XII Limitations
English Proficient
CL-65 SIC Privileges Only
CL-65 Circ. Apch. - VMC Only


Anywho, in accordance with the original topic, I would have to say that I am in the discouraged stage of my career. Basically up until this point, there has been non-stop hard work involved and no real setbacks, so the forward progression has always been evident. After getting furloughed, I feel like I took a huge step backwards... it sucks. My regional was great... ya, there is a 10 year upgrade, but FO pay was better than most and I am originally from and live in the city I was based in... which was a huge QOL plus.

With the way things are going in the economy, I think it will take some time for the airlines to recover and hire again. Right now, I am just holding onto the hope of a recall sometime this year. I just hope that within 2-3 years I am flying again for an airline and am happy. There are going to be a lot of changes for me over the next couple of years, one of the biggest ones is my plan to propose to my girlfriend in April. <gulp>. So I am looking forward to things getting better... I sure hope she doesnt read these boards...

etflies

I see myself instructing until things pick back up, then hopefully joining the ranks of you regional F/Os. I still am hanging onto my goal to reach the left seat at a major someday, I know its a ways off but that isnt going to stop me. I have over 40yrs of flying left in me, and someone is going to have to fly the airplanes during the next 40yrs...I might as well be one of the pilots. I can't see myself doing anything else.

FlyJSH

Plans? In AVIATION???

I guess you could plan on eating alot of ramen and working like a dog.

And 5 years to get to a major? About the only way that will happen is if you sleep with the CEO. If you REALLY want to get into this business, you need to get your head out of the clouds (pun intended).


There are several thousand pilots out of work right now. If you get a part 91 or 135 FO job, don't be surprised if there are two (or more) CAs and YOU are the ONLY FO. Understand the CA has probably been with the company for a while, and has developed some rapport with the customers. Management treats him reasonably well (at least well enough). But you, as a low timer (as in you will have NO time in King Airs) are just a seat warmer. So, management can whip you like a dog. After all, where are you gonna go with your time?

IF I were starting over right now and had no encumbrances (family), I would look for a freight job in West Armpit, Anystate (read that as any little stinking hole where nobody wants to live and the cost of living is zero). Expect to fly old planes, but don't accept poor mx. I would try for (1) ANY twin, (2) a Caravan, (3) a piston single with a company that has twins, or (4) anything that pays the bills.

With several thousand pilots out of work, any job you have, you better protect it like your daughter's virginity.



Now, as for me....
I am cautiously optimistic. If the economy doesn't completely tank (double digit inflation, 15% unemployment rate), I think my company and my job are safe. (I have closed two air carriers and one military base, so I think I have a pretty good idea when the doors will close) Upgrade time is something like 5 to 50 years, but I live in base, in a city I like, and I can pay my bills.

When the economy does finally recover and the big boys start hiring again, then I will be in good shape. I will eventually upgrade. Depending on my age (mid forties) and the hiring rate at the majors, will determine if I move on or become a lifer.

atpwannabe

Ramen noodles??? You got me ****ed up....LOL......(dadgummit FLYJSH you got me doing what I asked people not do).


Anyway....in addition to being qualified as a capable pilot, having the necessary people skills is essential as well. Being able to interact is definitely an asset. Although each of us may have this attribute and use it to varying magnitudes, I still say it's an important characteristic to have. I think that this is of high importance in Corporate flying than most other flying.

As I've shared before, an UPSCO pilot, whose a friend, told me that what interviewing panel pilots look for is whether or not they can live with this guy or girl while they are on a 3, 4, or 5 day trip, whatever the case may be.

Also may I add that there are other variables that all of you are not aware of. These variables are assets in my quest, however if not properly managed they can easily become a liabilities.

As far as the economy being the way it is, it will turnaround. What may have been viewed as growth over the past few years is now viewed as excess. It has to be trimmed. Unfortunately, some pilots and a whole lot of other professions got caught up in this mess. My heart goes out to those who were hired as recently as 2006/'07 and are now furloughed. As a Diver put it....it sucks. I empathize with everyone out there in that situation. At the same time, those who do stay in flying, whether furloughed or not, will be in a good position when things turnaround. IMO, in 3-5 years we will have recovered all or most of that which has been lost and will see sustainable growth for a few more years after that.



atp

MoonShot

After working my a$$ off the last nine years to get to my "dream job", I just hope to stay employed the next 2-3 years. I only have about 1.5% of the seniority list below me and the economy is in shambles. But you know what, I'm not all that worried. I am happy with life, and if I get furloughed, it won't be the end of the world. I'll get to come back someday. I have recently got engaged to my high school sweethart, I have A LOT of hobbies, and the thought of getting a 9-5 job for a while, well... it seems just fine. I could grow a garden, see my girl every night, get a beagle, and gasp... sleep in my own bed all the time! I absolutely love what I do, but after all the heads-down driving towards the goal of being a major airline pilot and finally making it there, I've realized there are really a lot of other things in this world that can make me truely happy.

withthatsaid182

This is quite the appropriate thread for me as I just found out that I'll be going from reserve in New York (JFK/LGA) to reserve in San Juan. Along with the move I'll also be going to a new plane and go from $34/hr to $26/hr. A bunch of other guys are in the same boat with me and we're speechless.

I was not expecting much from the airlines but this kinda puts a dent in the ol' QOL-meter. I am going to find it hard to justify commuting from NH to SJU just to sit reserve and pull in $1400 a month. I also am going to really start missing the Mrs. and the homestead as well. At this point I really don't know if I have "what it takes" to make it in this industry. All the guys that walk around rippin' and roarin' about paying their dues and telling you about what it takes can insert their commentary here...as they always do.

Granted I am thankful to have a job flying an airplane right now however at some point the professional pilot has to decide when enough is enough. I am thinking of going back to flight instructing and getting a job at a grocery store or something like that.

Getting furloughed would sure suck but I think having to decide between whether to keep the job and being miserable or just quitting...is much worse.

TurnAndBurn

That cannot be said any better. I think many of us had that twinkle in our eyes when we figured out we wanted to be "Airline Pilots", then when we got the chance to live the life...it actually leaves so much more to be desired.

I would only hope that you are financially secure, as to consider doing this at age 47. If money isn't a problem, just go for it. Who knows where this industry will be in 5-10 years, all I know is right now, I'm on the bottom of my list, and about to lose my seat/domicile and maybe even my job.

Good luck, and always do what YOU want to do when it comes to a career.

atpwannabe

Oh how so true. A few of the other things that truly make me happy is that I believe that I've been "called" to the ordained ministry and I have the desire to chase tornadoes for scientific reasons & research.

You see for me, whatever level of flying I do beyond the instructor level, I will be successful in doing that....very successful. Whether it be becoming a CA on a KA350 or CE550 or A310/300 or a RJ9...whatever...it doesn't matter. Becoming a professional pilot is just only one facet of who I am and what allows me to experience happiness and contentment as a person. I just BELIEVE!



atp

SkyHigh

Yesterday I realized a benefit from my aviation career. Recently a prominent young local business man committed suicide leaving a wife and three young children to deal with the financial fallout that was unfolding when he decided to check out.

It caught me by surprise since he did not seem all that bad off to me. He was loosing some properties and had to downsize but it did not seem worthy of the extreme choice that he made. Then it occurred to me that as a pilot I was use to being humiliated, disappointed and abused. Most people enjoy appreciating wages and lifestyles. It must come at quite a shock to receive a setback. As a pilots we are use to being kicked to the curb well into our advanced adult years. I had been broken by aviation continuously since graduating from college and knew how to survive on little. My ego has been caged. I do not have an image to protect other than being broke and frugal.

Most people do not have to endure a tenth of what pilots have to go through. We have had to develop a sense of self worth from someplace other than what kind of car we drive, how much or employers think we are worth or what ghetto apartment we live in. Pilots are very accustomed to seeking government assistance and living on handouts. We drive old cars and sleep on the floor in airports when commuting rather than to blow 50 bucks on a hotel room.

Regular people do not have the same hurdles. They are not regularly broken by their chosen profession so when hard times come they are not nearly as well prepared to handle it. It is a true benefit in these times to be continually humbled by aviation. Pilots do not have far to fall and always know that hard times are just around the corner.

Skyhigh