N2264J

Is your point that Spain's solar industry is responsible for the financial crisis of 2008?

Again, I'm talking about an industry and you guys seemed to be wrapped around the axle on the country's overall economic health.

Regardless, my assertion is that countries manufacturing and using renewables like Spain and Germany will emerge from the worldwide economic crisis ahead of the field because that's the technology the world wants to buy.

jungle

Not at all, it is just symptomatic of the kind of failed policy forced on innocent people when junk science is embraced by used car salesmen dressed as politicos. The PIGS and other governments around the world have shown all the responsibility of drunken adolescents with car keys and firearms.

This is not the technology the world wants to buy, it is a handicap bound to cripple economies and further ruin already bankrupt states.

"Power from the most-efficient photovoltaic plants costs utilities about $275 per megawatt-hour to produce compared with about $60 for a coal-fired plant, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance. The cost of electricity from coal is held down in part by a plentiful supply of the mineral from established mines. "

Energy is vital to any economy, raising its price almost five times just to be stylish will have an adverse effect on everyone.

FDXLAG

Again you seem to think that opposition to solar is opposition against progress. Not at all, I would love it if I could throw some beer cans and an old orange peel into my Mister Fusion and drive for 30 years. But when governments think they are smarter than the market: In banking you get the 2008 financial crisis; In the energy market you get corn ethanol that neither saves energy, money, or reduces CO2 emissions.

DYNASTY HVY

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
N2264J
If this does'nt make you question these peoples motives who are trying to RAM these ideas down a populations throat then I don't know what will, follow the money because that and control over other peoples lives is what this is really all about nothing more and nothing less .
Through the ages people have died so that others may live freely without interference in their lives by a minority that is hell bent on doing the exact opposite of what they were fighting for and that is FREEDOM FROM OPPRESSION in any form .
Ask yourself where did the communists go after the Soviet Union fell and while your at it do a google search on the founder of Greenpeace and why he resigned.



Fred

Busboy

You boys ever heard of progress? Most innovations are not as cost effective as the items they'll replace, initially.

The first automobile vs. a horse.
The first steamships vs. sails/oars.
How about the first computers? Or calculators?


Get government out of the way, you say.
How would that have worked for the early aviation industry?
Or medicine?

I'd think you patriots would be all over the idea of this country leading the way on something of this importance to the entire world.

FDXLAG

Early aviation pioneers didnt listen to government to tell them how to do it. There is a big difference for a government award or grant that says you win a prize or a contract if you show us a fighter that can go 600 miles and reach 40000 feet and a grant that says show us how CO2 is causing global cooling or warming or whatever the cause de jour is. There is a reason all the soviet commercial airliners look alot like stolen western designs. And there is a reason the latest Chinese stealth Jet look vaguely American.

If you lefties had put socialized medicine in the constitution we would still be bleeding patients. Tell me again how Paul Ryan is killing medicare while BO is saving it by only offering doctors 28% reimbursement?

We patriots are all over the idea of leading the way. You one worlders are just to stupid to realize that getting government and the UN Commision on Screwing the Productive (chaired by Somalia this year) out of the way is the way to allow us to lead.

Progress works best when the guy making the decisions has "skin in the game" not when he is playing with other peoples grand kids borrowed money.

jungle

Innovation is wonderful, but to call an almost 500% increase in the cost of electricity an innovation might be stretching the truth.

If you want such an innovation, you are of course free to place solar panels on your roof, if you really believe it is an innovation why not show us your solar panels? Tell us how they work and why they are better than buying electricity from a major producer. Tell us how you store power and cope with dark and rain.

All of the innovations you mention were market driven, not mandates from on high.

It would also be very difficult to classify the bankruptcy of the PIGS and other states an innovation of any kind sought by reasonable people. It is another mandate devoid of logic which completely ignores market forces.

Science and economics cannot be ignored, their laws bend to no man and they cannot be mandated.

You may choose to drive a Chevy Volt because it meets your needs, but that doesn't mean it meets everyone's needs or that it is an acceptable vehicle for the majority or that it should be subsidized by your fellow humans.

True innovation will always prove its worth, it is never made valuable by state proclamation. Whenever we are denied rational choices in the name of false innovation, you can be sure that failure has just been mandated.

FDXLAG

Dear President Roosevelt, .................................................. .................................... 17 Dec 1902

Attached you will find version 43 of our proposal to fly a heavier than air craft with a propulsion system to provide forward momentum and sustain lift. Orville was delighted that his diversity program finally meets the latest requirements directed by your staff. While father enjoyed your joke about providing a Wright Brother of Color, mother won out and we are pursuing the traditional route. We have located some union Bicycle tradesman to comply with the directions from the Department of Commerce and Labor, as such we will only have to delay our estimated first fly day by 26 to 28 months. Our legal department assures us that no less than 70 of the 167 outstanding lawsuits have any merit but we should be able to come to terms with the majority prior to the big day. We are very pleased to announce that the Department of the Interior has finally allowed us to use Gasoline as a fuel for our craft after we showed them that 90% of our vehicle by weight is made of natural materials and the aluminum block on the engine can be melted down and recast. As we are sure you will win the 1908 election, please accept our invitation to attend the first flight now scheduled for late spring ’09.

Compliantly

Wilbur Wright

Busboy

Relax, stop drinking the Haterade for a moment and think about it.

What I'm trying to say is that many, maybe most, of the "inventions" that we take for granted came about and/or were fostered with government dollars. Most were not cost effective during their early stages...But, with government research dollars and/or subsidies they were refined to the point of usefulness.

As far as aviation goes...Ever heard of NACA? Ever heard of "Air Mail" and its importance to early civil aviation? Think the early airlines would have made it without government subsidies?

You guys are hilarious. Visionless cave men mentalities, but hilarious. Have fun at your next Glenn Beck "Restoring Honor" rally.

jungle

When you can show us any real proof that solar or windmills have the potential to power this country with or without government intervention you will have my respect.

Until then you have to rely on emotional arguments with no basis in fact.
Government intervention in free markets has a long and well documented history of failure. NACA, Airmail and NASA were mostly organized efforts by private companies.
You cannot pick the winners before they emerge, and it is failed policy in the case of ethanol and solar that has prevented the real winners from emerging in energy.