Pilots have no rights
06-16-2013, 03:09 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Also when dealing with automobiles (and I assume airplanes)...
Due to the the fact that the evidence is mobile, probable cause by the on-scene officer is enough to enable a search, they don't need to acquire a warrant as they would if they wanted to search your house.
Due to the the fact that the evidence is mobile, probable cause by the on-scene officer is enough to enable a search, they don't need to acquire a warrant as they would if they wanted to search your house.
In addition, probable cause is needed to conduct any search, above and beyond a search incident to arrest or vehicle inventory (which is not technically a "search" under the law). If Joe Dirtbag is arrested, prior to being placed in the patrol car, he is searched for weapons/contraband. He is searched again at the jail. Anything obtained is legal evidence.
If he is NOT arrested but stopped on the corner by officers, and they rough him up and find a crack pipe in his back pocket, yes he will be arrested but the case tossed out in approximately 2 nanoseconds after the judge sees it. Officers also liable for civil rights violations/etc stuff.
Probable cause, ALWAYS a requirement for a search, can be determined via the officer himself (who must then articulate his actions if called upon by his management or the courts/judge), or by a judge, who will then issue a search warrant, which absolves the officer (who brought the facts to the judge in the first place) of a large portion of the liability in whether "PC" existed or not.
A search or seizure both require probable cause. A vehicle stop is not a seizure (think "loss of freedom" or "loss of usage" with the word seizure) it is a temporary investigative detention per the courts.
Getting arrested, getting your car towed, your bank account frozen, are all seizures
Last edited by satpak77; 06-16-2013 at 03:27 PM.
06-16-2013, 06:55 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
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Posts: 726
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Also when dealing with automobiles (and I assume airplanes)...
Due to the the fact that the evidence is mobile, probable cause by the on-scene officer is enough to enable a search, they don't need to acquire a warrant as they would if they wanted to search your house.
Due to the the fact that the evidence is mobile, probable cause by the on-scene officer is enough to enable a search, they don't need to acquire a warrant as they would if they wanted to search your house.
06-16-2013, 08:11 PM
#13
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Posts: 3,982
Originally Posted by satpak77
very correct. a house is a "domicile" and the law affords much more protection to your residence/living quarters.
In addition, probable cause is needed to conduct any search, above and beyond a search incident to arrest or vehicle inventory (which is not technically a "search" under the law). If Joe Dirtbag is arrested, prior to being placed in the patrol car, he is searched for weapons/contraband. He is searched again at the jail. Anything obtained is legal evidence.
Probable cause, ALWAYS a requirement for a search, can be determined via the officer himself (who must then articulate his actions if called upon by his management or the courts/judge), or by a judge, who will then issue a search warrant, which absolves the officer (who brought the facts to the judge in the first place) of a large portion of the liability in whether "PC" existed or not.
A search or seizure both require probable cause. A vehicle stop is not a seizure (think "loss of freedom" or "loss of usage" with the word seizure) it is a temporary investigative detention per the courts.
Getting arrested, getting your car towed, your bank account frozen, are all seizures
In addition, probable cause is needed to conduct any search, above and beyond a search incident to arrest or vehicle inventory (which is not technically a "search" under the law). If Joe Dirtbag is arrested, prior to being placed in the patrol car, he is searched for weapons/contraband. He is searched again at the jail. Anything obtained is legal evidence.
Probable cause, ALWAYS a requirement for a search, can be determined via the officer himself (who must then articulate his actions if called upon by his management or the courts/judge), or by a judge, who will then issue a search warrant, which absolves the officer (who brought the facts to the judge in the first place) of a large portion of the liability in whether "PC" existed or not.
A search or seizure both require probable cause. A vehicle stop is not a seizure (think "loss of freedom" or "loss of usage" with the word seizure) it is a temporary investigative detention per the courts.
Getting arrested, getting your car towed, your bank account frozen, are all seizures
06-16-2013, 08:27 PM
#14
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I know that "privilege" is the legal doctrine for both driving and flying, but I'd love to know how that evolved.
You DO NOT and never are required to give a law enforcement officer permission to search your property as per the 4th and you have a right to not incriminate yourself under the 5th. DO NOT EVER grant permission to a LEO to search your private property.
06-16-2013, 09:11 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by Tom a Hawk
Don't ever give consent to a search of your vehicle. You are not required to and if they are really allowed to search then they won't be asking, ie, a warrant.
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes
This is why there are all the youtube videos of border stops at places other than the border where they wave the guy through after he doesn't answer their questions. They have no right to detain, and while the courts have held up that it is ok for them to search vehicles at places other than the border if it is in a location likely to be transiting to/from the border, they still need to have probable cause/reasonable suspicion to do so. Everything they are asking for is basically voluntary, although they don't inform you of that unfortunately.
Originally Posted by Airhoss
You DO NOT and never are required to give a law enforcement officer permission to search your property as per the 4th and you have a right to not incriminate yourself under the 5th. DO NOT EVER grant permission to a LEO to search your private property.
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