What's going on in the Ukraine
10-31-2014, 01:29 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,026
Valid points and the horrid history of Russia and such brought up in these debates.
Some folks always seem to have the need to make it a personal attack on another, as usual.
But hey! Sometimes, I just have to keep it basic, kick back, and root for my home team. So, that being said…..USA!…USA!…USA!
Some folks always seem to have the need to make it a personal attack on another, as usual.
But hey! Sometimes, I just have to keep it basic, kick back, and root for my home team. So, that being said…..USA!…USA!…USA!
10-31-2014, 04:49 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
I know you make attempts to show the world in a neutral perspective. That is your problem, you don't think there is a right and wrong. What I don't get is we both agree you are making a moral equivalence argument, but you object when I point it out. Yes if you want to point out that we are just as bad as the other guys then you are making a moral equivalence argument, wear that Tshirt proudly (red no doubt).
If I watched the news I'd sure as hell think the US is a godsend to the mud farmers in the middle east and the communist Russians.
Are you a baby boomer? Maybe retired or about to be? I honestly haven't seen such patriotism outside of story books.
10-31-2014, 04:58 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by Sounds
Are you previous military? I'm honestly curious on how one sheds this "moral equivalence" mindset. How do you take objectivity out of the world and see it as the righteous thing to do?
If I watched the news I'd sure as hell think the US is a godsend to the mud farmers in the middle east and the communist Russians.
Are you a baby boomer? Maybe retired or about to be? I honestly haven't seen such patriotism outside of story books.
If I watched the news I'd sure as hell think the US is a godsend to the mud farmers in the middle east and the communist Russians.
Are you a baby boomer? Maybe retired or about to be? I honestly haven't seen such patriotism outside of story books.
Seriously you defend Russia for attacking Ukraine simply because they want to ensure the free (and by free I mean for free) flow of Natural Gas to Western Europe but no doubt occupied wallstreet because Bush traded "Blood for Oil"
Ps I don't want to shed my moral equivalence argument I like being able to make value judgements. It is how I know it is not right to rob banks or take candy from babies and the people who do so are bad.
PPS the country is doomed.
Last edited by FDXLAG; 10-31-2014 at 05:09 AM.
10-31-2014, 07:44 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
The majority of the Ukrainians don't want that.
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
you defend Russia for attacking Ukraine
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
I don't want to shed my moral equivalence argument I like being able to make value judgements. It is how I know it is not right to rob banks or take candy from babies and the people who do so are bad.
Let's reframe this conversation. You are correct about us being educated differently. I have had the internet for a significant portion of my life and grew up in a time where the status quo has been rapidly shifting away from patriotic views as more and more become disillusioned. My views and life experiences are radically different.
I've never even legitimately heard anyone argue for moral equivalence. That's something you read in history books.
10-31-2014, 07:58 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by Sounds
This is where I have to point out the source bias of information gathering. We don't believe tobacco research from cigarette companies right? They have something to gain. Conflict of interest. What validates information from parties who have a conflict of interest? Take what both sides are saying and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
No, I point out the rational of Russia defending a political attack from the EU.
A person doesn't need the bible to tell them murder is wrong. Ethics are not tied to religion or politics.
Let's reframe this conversation. You are correct about us being educated differently. I have had the internet for a significant portion of my life and grew up in a time where the status quo has been rapidly shifting away from patriotic views as more and more become disillusioned. My views and life experiences are radically different.
I've never even legitimately heard anyone argue for moral equivalence. That's something you read in history books.
No, I point out the rational of Russia defending a political attack from the EU.
A person doesn't need the bible to tell them murder is wrong. Ethics are not tied to religion or politics.
Let's reframe this conversation. You are correct about us being educated differently. I have had the internet for a significant portion of my life and grew up in a time where the status quo has been rapidly shifting away from patriotic views as more and more become disillusioned. My views and life experiences are radically different.
I've never even legitimately heard anyone argue for moral equivalence. That's something you read in history books.
Strawman
Strawman
Ah the Bible and those evil Christians. No doubts your views are radically different comrade. You think that is good but you don't value value judgements. The Russians or their surrogates murdered everyone on MH17.
10-31-2014, 08:22 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 168
All people calculate value judgements, but Moral equivalency is rooted in objectivity.
A natural extension of the term value judgment is to include declarations seen one way from one value system, but which may be seen differently from another.
I am disappointed with your choice of response. I call no group evil. I call out source bias, and point out that we don't have all the information to make accurate calls. Your attempts to discredit my points discredit yourself.
A natural extension of the term value judgment is to include declarations seen one way from one value system, but which may be seen differently from another.
I am disappointed with your choice of response. I call no group evil. I call out source bias, and point out that we don't have all the information to make accurate calls. Your attempts to discredit my points discredit yourself.
10-31-2014, 08:46 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by Sounds
All people calculate value judgements, but Moral equivalency is rooted in objectivity.
A natural extension of the term value judgment is to include declarations seen one way from one value system, but which may be seen differently from another.
I am disappointed with your choice of response. I call no group evil. I call out source bias, and point out that we don't have all the information to make accurate calls. Your attempts to discredit my points discredit yourself.
A natural extension of the term value judgment is to include declarations seen one way from one value system, but which may be seen differently from another.
I am disappointed with your choice of response. I call no group evil. I call out source bias, and point out that we don't have all the information to make accurate calls. Your attempts to discredit my points discredit yourself.
10-31-2014, 09:21 AM
#29
With The Resistance
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
We have the makings for our own little civil war in the thread.
Just a guess, but Ukrainians don't give a hoot about your value judgements and neither do the Russians. Show up and they might hand you a rifle and let you make a statement with that, or maybe they would just shoot you because you make too much noise.
Just a guess, but Ukrainians don't give a hoot about your value judgements and neither do the Russians. Show up and they might hand you a rifle and let you make a statement with that, or maybe they would just shoot you because you make too much noise.
10-31-2014, 09:34 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by jungle
We have the makings for our own little civil war in the thread.
Just a guess, but Ukrainians don't give a hoot about your value judgements and neither do the Russians. Show up and they might hand you a rifle and let you make a statement with that, or maybe they would just shoot you because you make too much noise.
Just a guess, but Ukrainians don't give a hoot about your value judgements and neither do the Russians. Show up and they might hand you a rifle and let you make a statement with that, or maybe they would just shoot you because you make too much noise.
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