Navy Pilots wanted
02-08-2006, 08:20 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 679
navy pilots
P3...
They tried this nonsense back in the 80's with the separate designator, think it might have been Aviation Duty Officer. That track was a flying track and offered few, if any , command opportunities. At the same time there was also a flying LDO program that fed aviation officers for tracom slots as well as shipboard aviator billets.
The Luftwaffe has two tracks...one a flying track and the other a command track...if you elect the flying track you stay in the cockpit but will never make general...the other track you fly a lot of large mahogany desks...
I agree that Navy's up or out hurts the pilot ranks. Getting your "checks in the box" for the joint stuff, staff stuff and post grad education as well as your "disassociated sea tour" has nothing to do with flying. Unfortunately, the only way you can get ahead is to hit all these targets.
Why are they letting current officers out of the Navy for free when they could have made them pilots??? Sounds like a waste to me. I think this warrant officer program will end up in the trash heap just as the other programs did. It's a wonderful solution to a non-existent problem.
JMO
Pilot7576
They tried this nonsense back in the 80's with the separate designator, think it might have been Aviation Duty Officer. That track was a flying track and offered few, if any , command opportunities. At the same time there was also a flying LDO program that fed aviation officers for tracom slots as well as shipboard aviator billets.
The Luftwaffe has two tracks...one a flying track and the other a command track...if you elect the flying track you stay in the cockpit but will never make general...the other track you fly a lot of large mahogany desks...
I agree that Navy's up or out hurts the pilot ranks. Getting your "checks in the box" for the joint stuff, staff stuff and post grad education as well as your "disassociated sea tour" has nothing to do with flying. Unfortunately, the only way you can get ahead is to hit all these targets.
Why are they letting current officers out of the Navy for free when they could have made them pilots??? Sounds like a waste to me. I think this warrant officer program will end up in the trash heap just as the other programs did. It's a wonderful solution to a non-existent problem.
JMO
Pilot7576
02-08-2006, 10:19 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 278
that sound weird
I was one of those 80 from year group 2004. There was a total of 160 spots that needed to be rid of. 80 from 2004 and 80 from 2005. They changed their height requirements the year before i graduated. I was 1/10th or less too much (sitting height). When i think about all of the dirt bags they had there that got to move forward it ****es me off to no end. They wanted me to be an NFO. Great, what kind of job is that going to get me on the outside. I could picture it- every time i told someone in my squadron that why i was an NFO and not a pilot i would hear a resounding 'you got screwed'. And i would be reminded that i did get screwed.
02-08-2006, 01:06 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: HC-130H A/C
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by Pilot7576
P3...
They tried this nonsense back in the 80's with the separate designator, think it might have been Aviation Duty Officer. That track was a flying track and offered few, if any , command opportunities. At the same time there was also a flying LDO program that fed aviation officers for tracom slots as well as shipboard aviator billets.
They tried this nonsense back in the 80's with the separate designator, think it might have been Aviation Duty Officer. That track was a flying track and offered few, if any , command opportunities. At the same time there was also a flying LDO program that fed aviation officers for tracom slots as well as shipboard aviator billets.
When I was in multi-engine school I flew eith one of the last "flying LDO's". He loved it. Flying was what he wanted to do and had no ambition to fly a desk. I asked him if it was available today and he said it had gone away along time ago.
Canada has a similiar career path. I think its get and if the states started to take qualified pilots I would be first to jump on it. I never like the boat tour idea, and if it wasn't for my FTS billet I would have gotten out after 7 years in. Like you said seems like a waste of resources.
The navy also cut back on the number of pilots like they have started to do now. Its like its either full bore or a trickal. They now talk about it now as the T notch year and if you were lucky to be in those years then it seems like if you can fog a mirror and have a clean slate you will make department head.
Thye never learn.
02-16-2006, 01:20 AM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Who wouldn’t want a flying only career track? The majority of fellow IP’s in my VT squadron would be all over it. All of us qualified aircraft commanders with fleet experience. Paying terminal O-3’s until year 20 has got to be cheaper than training a new crop of warrants to fly. Not to mention less upgrade bounce flights for RAG and fleet birds.
As if fatigue life, min flight time, and six hour pre-flights weren’t enough. Now they’re getting warrants to fly the planes, while us JO’s are filling army support ground jobs in Iraq or Afghanistan.
What is this doing for attrition? Anyone sitting the fence on staying in or punching will choose the latter. One year augment orders to the green zone make a shooter tour look suuwweeet!
And oh yeah, VP, VQ, or helo only. Guess fixed wing carrier ops are to daunting for a warrant. Wonder what community the admiral who bought of on this came from?
As if fatigue life, min flight time, and six hour pre-flights weren’t enough. Now they’re getting warrants to fly the planes, while us JO’s are filling army support ground jobs in Iraq or Afghanistan.
What is this doing for attrition? Anyone sitting the fence on staying in or punching will choose the latter. One year augment orders to the green zone make a shooter tour look suuwweeet!
And oh yeah, VP, VQ, or helo only. Guess fixed wing carrier ops are to daunting for a warrant. Wonder what community the admiral who bought of on this came from?
02-16-2006, 03:41 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 679
Chips...
I agree 100%...when my son selected out of primary, they had to draft for the P-3s due to the severe lack of home flying. All his instructors told him don't go there, they were averaging about 10 hrs/month. He chose helos and is having a blast (there was one navy jet and one marine jet slot). When I was in the VTs (80s and 90s), I felt the same way....just let me stay here and fly and leave me alone!
Now if you want to get ahead, you have to have your masters as well as a joint tour and in general spend a whole lot of time out of the cockpit. When there is a lull in the airline hiring, guys are forced to do that. When hiring turns around they won't be able to keep pilots in at all.
BTW, do you remember how to simulate the chips lite in the P-3???...lol
JMO
Pilot7576
I agree 100%...when my son selected out of primary, they had to draft for the P-3s due to the severe lack of home flying. All his instructors told him don't go there, they were averaging about 10 hrs/month. He chose helos and is having a blast (there was one navy jet and one marine jet slot). When I was in the VTs (80s and 90s), I felt the same way....just let me stay here and fly and leave me alone!
Now if you want to get ahead, you have to have your masters as well as a joint tour and in general spend a whole lot of time out of the cockpit. When there is a lull in the airline hiring, guys are forced to do that. When hiring turns around they won't be able to keep pilots in at all.
BTW, do you remember how to simulate the chips lite in the P-3???...lol
JMO
Pilot7576
02-22-2006, 06:52 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 679
Velocipede....
The only problem is there is no "gap" to fill...there are plenty of flight students they are sending home (usna grads and probably rotc grads) and yet they want to have a warrant officer flying program. If there was a shortage of pilots, I could see the justification for the program, but as it is, it's still a great solution for a non-existent problem.
There are more pilot candidates at the Naval Academy than there are billets to fill....why then select from a warrant officer program???....I still don't know that answer....
JMO
Pilot7576
The only problem is there is no "gap" to fill...there are plenty of flight students they are sending home (usna grads and probably rotc grads) and yet they want to have a warrant officer flying program. If there was a shortage of pilots, I could see the justification for the program, but as it is, it's still a great solution for a non-existent problem.
There are more pilot candidates at the Naval Academy than there are billets to fill....why then select from a warrant officer program???....I still don't know that answer....
JMO
Pilot7576
02-22-2006, 08:25 PM
#20
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,281
Frankly, the WWII "Flying Chiefs" program worked well because there were plenty of high-caliber people who couldn't afford a college education in the 30s and 40s. Flying doesn't really require a degree, but it DOES require a sharp student with some potential.
Today it's so easy to get a college degree and there are so many grads out there you have to wonder why the nav wants to take a chance folks who didn't bother to get one...you need a 4 year degree to make senior chief... you should probably have one to fly carrier aircraft.
Of course the army's been doing it forever...
Today it's so easy to get a college degree and there are so many grads out there you have to wonder why the nav wants to take a chance folks who didn't bother to get one...you need a 4 year degree to make senior chief... you should probably have one to fly carrier aircraft.
Of course the army's been doing it forever...
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