Flying for Owner Pilots...
01-27-2009, 11:38 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Posts: 117
Flying for Owner Pilots...
I wrote this on another thread, but I have had years of experience doing this and I have made tons of mistakes. I hope you guys can learn something from my mistakes, I certainly have. I have since moved on to a company that takes care of their pilots and I will never go back to an owner pilot situation, but I can pass on the crib notes.
1. GET ALL DETAILS IN WRITING. Do not trust that they will remember that they told you that you did not have to come into the office each day or that you didn't have to pick up their dry cleaning and polish their shoes. These folks are used to being pampered. If you don't have things in writing, you will get OWNED b/c that person writes your check, thus, has leverage. If there is ANY question in your mind, get it in writing. If the person is not willing to sign off on promises, they are pulling your leg and you cannot trust them.
2. Lay out the job rules and description CLEARLY and DO NOT vary from it without additional compensation or thorough thought. The moment you do, you will have screwed yourself. I have worked for several owner pilots, some good and some bad. I can not say it enough, GET IT IN WRITING.
3. Check that they have a license and a medical and the appropriate ratings and sign offs. Check if they are current in the type of aircraft they fly; if they have had the appropriate checks (like a good instructor would) and be sure they could pass a PPC and IPC before risking your life with them if you are not familiar enough to fly the aircraft alone.
4. Read and understand the aircraft insurance policy b/c that is the only thing your family will have if you die. If you take the word of the owner that all is well, someone may get a surprise when the company won't pay due to violation of contract.
5. Obtain legal insurance, I bought mine from AOPA for $100/year.
6. RUN if the person starts asking to break FARs or take risks. They are taking risks with your job and your license, especially if it's a two pilot aircraft. Don't believe that if the owner is flying and listed as the PIC that you cannot get in trouble. If someone breaks an altitude or dings a wing while taxiing, it's your butt too. You are a required crew member.
7. Have the guts to walk away. If you get taken advantage of, put at risk, lied to, or abused, walk away.
Just good notes for ALL to remember about ALL owner pilot jobs. I have made several of these mistakes and I have lived to regret each one. I still have my ticket and I am a lot smarter.
Guys, just good advice. If you have any, add it below. We can all learn something from each other.
1. GET ALL DETAILS IN WRITING. Do not trust that they will remember that they told you that you did not have to come into the office each day or that you didn't have to pick up their dry cleaning and polish their shoes. These folks are used to being pampered. If you don't have things in writing, you will get OWNED b/c that person writes your check, thus, has leverage. If there is ANY question in your mind, get it in writing. If the person is not willing to sign off on promises, they are pulling your leg and you cannot trust them.
2. Lay out the job rules and description CLEARLY and DO NOT vary from it without additional compensation or thorough thought. The moment you do, you will have screwed yourself. I have worked for several owner pilots, some good and some bad. I can not say it enough, GET IT IN WRITING.
3. Check that they have a license and a medical and the appropriate ratings and sign offs. Check if they are current in the type of aircraft they fly; if they have had the appropriate checks (like a good instructor would) and be sure they could pass a PPC and IPC before risking your life with them if you are not familiar enough to fly the aircraft alone.
4. Read and understand the aircraft insurance policy b/c that is the only thing your family will have if you die. If you take the word of the owner that all is well, someone may get a surprise when the company won't pay due to violation of contract.
5. Obtain legal insurance, I bought mine from AOPA for $100/year.
6. RUN if the person starts asking to break FARs or take risks. They are taking risks with your job and your license, especially if it's a two pilot aircraft. Don't believe that if the owner is flying and listed as the PIC that you cannot get in trouble. If someone breaks an altitude or dings a wing while taxiing, it's your butt too. You are a required crew member.
7. Have the guts to walk away. If you get taken advantage of, put at risk, lied to, or abused, walk away.
Just good notes for ALL to remember about ALL owner pilot jobs. I have made several of these mistakes and I have lived to regret each one. I still have my ticket and I am a lot smarter.
Guys, just good advice. If you have any, add it below. We can all learn something from each other.
02-01-2009, 10:46 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,114
I wanted to add on, not just pilot-owners but all owners. I flew a Caravan out of Daytona to the islands for a private owner. A few times the owner showed up to the plane before I did, I never thought anything of it until one day we showed up about the same time and found him loading more than just bags into the belly. Turns out he was taking over small electronics like DVD players and selling them for profit. I looked into it and it breaks about 6 or 7 federal laws, from that day on I refused to fly him anymore. I also spread the word around about what he was doing and he couldn't get anyone to fly for him. Shortly after he sold the plane and started taking the airlines.
Long story short don't trust what alot of these guys tell you, most of them think the rules don't apply to them.
Long story short don't trust what alot of these guys tell you, most of them think the rules don't apply to them.
Last edited by dn_wisconsin; 02-01-2009 at 10:51 AM.
02-03-2009, 10:35 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Citation Driver
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by dn_wisconsin
Long story short don't trust what alot of these guys tell you, most of them think the rules don't apply to them.
02-18-2009, 08:03 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
YES! In my experience some of the owner pilots not only bend rules but toss them out all together. For the pilot simply trying to make the best of the situation, it can become quite a hassle. The post about the owner flying out of Daytona with electronics is right on! One can spend more time trying to operate the flight in a "legal" manner than concentrating on the flying part...
02-27-2009, 06:14 AM
#8
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Wealthy People
Wealthy people get that way because they do not let anything get in their way. Often the motto is that it is "better to say that you were sorry then to ask for permission in the first place". Rule book people usually get left in the dust. Getting ahead in business is about taking risks.
Those traits do not work well with aviation. Aggressive business owners can be trouble whenever mixed with aviation.
Skyhigh
Those traits do not work well with aviation. Aggressive business owners can be trouble whenever mixed with aviation.
Skyhigh
02-27-2009, 12:49 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,114
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Wealthy people get that way because they do not let anything get in their way. Often the motto is that it is "better to say that you were sorry then to ask for permission in the first place". Rule book people usually get left in the dust. Getting ahead in business is about taking risks.
Those traits do not work well with aviation. Aggressive business owners can be trouble whenever mixed with aviation.
Skyhigh
Those traits do not work well with aviation. Aggressive business owners can be trouble whenever mixed with aviation.
Skyhigh
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