742Dash

As you point out they often have the "different colored lanyard", which is a system created by the union. So unfortunatly they do speak for the union. And this has been a problem for a long time.

But the fundamental problem is that this place has too many Eric Cartmans playing at hall monitor. They are causing dissension within the pilot group, weakening the union and creating legal liabilities.

useless

The situation at atlas is not a new development. If a pilot comes here knowing the situation, pay and status of negotiations they are taking a bet. They are betting that there will be a reward in seniority and pay if or when negations conclude and a CBA is achieved. By coming to Atlas and whoring yourself out you are benefitting no one but yourself and management’s cause. ...Most likely while operating outside the bounds of the contract as the company thrives on exploiting newbies.

My first year pay was abysmal, second was underwhelming and third year looks like it’s going to follow suit. But maybe there will be a pay off. If not, I move on.

When flights delay and cancel, Atlas cannot retain pilots or attract pilots then things will move. Until then with pilots in seat and freight moving there is no need to change.

Pay and work rules here suck. If you can’t manage on it for the next 5 years don’t come here. Everyone else is struggling for pilots and literally paying much more. You can make over a 100k first year at Kalitta...

TiredSoul

What some tend to forget during these arguments is that making $1M in your first year as Tesla’s astronaut is completely irrelevant if you can’t get hired there. For whatever reason.
No degree, no gazillion turbine PIC, no “Heavy” time, can’t go to ANC for the next 10 years and a myriad of other reasons.
“You should put your apps in with UPS”
“You’re stupid for being here and staying around”
Ad nauseum.....
This actively promoting/suggesting/bullying that newbies should leave is unethical behavior to me.
Even if the Union doesn’t encourage that type of behavior they should not turn a blind eye.

BluePAX

Unethical? Maybe. Selfish, more likely. Get the new guys to leave so you can get yours faster.

Not saying that it isn’t better elsewhere, but it’s the same song and dance I’ve seen at places in negotiations before. Hopefully market conditions and a good negotiator make the strongest case.

CaptainHvac

It is strange to see people who literally can't add 2+2 who want to come to Atlas (as new hires). I actually don't think it helps to exaggerate the numbers either, I'm with you there. Exaggeration and hyperbole aren't even required because all you must do is simple math in comparison. Regionals like Envoy are actually in play now in comparison to Atlas. You won't even touch 1st-year pay at Omni (new contract) until year 6 as 767 F/O at Atlas. Yeah, Omni....

TiredSoul

It’s not always ONLY about the money.
If I wanted money I’d be flying Migs in West Africa for some warlord for $2000/hr.
But I didn’t get hired there either.

zerozero

Look, without a doubt, there are a few guys who are quite undiplomatic in their approach to some new hires: "You should leave so I can get a better contract."

Frankly, that's rude. And I understand how it alienates the new guys and ultimately CORRODES solidarity. So all you really senior bitter and twisted ones, just stop it.

However, there are other crew members who may be advising new hires to "keep their irons in the fire" (i.e. keep their apps updated) due to the sheer instability of Atlas/Southern right now.

If you have a college degree, and you're in your 30s and plan on retiring in your 60s, why would you ever consider (in this historical job market) to camp out at Atlas/Southern where the business model is only as good as the next contract?

Some of this advice is really more like a big brother/mentor advice from older guys who have been here long enough to see the whipsaws, the furloughs at Atlas, while Polar was hiring, the transferring of aircraft, etc....

Of course it hasn't happened YET with Atlas/Southern, but don't put it past them for one bloody second! As soon as they get their opportunity they will take it.

The union does the best job they can in welcoming new hires into the fold. The union NEEDS the new guys on their side and wants them to fight the same fight EVEN IF they still have apps out at other carriers.

But it's true, at the end of the day, some of our more senior guys are just not very good at coming across as someone who has your own personal best interests at heart.

I always try to tell the new guys, "Welcome to Atlas. I'm glad you're here. But if you're a college educated 35 year old with a family, over the next 30 years, you would serve your family a lot better with a seniority number at a relatively stable carrier with a solid business plan, rather than this fly by night charter company."

And more to the point: Times are good right now, some of us even have multiple offers from different airlines. So choose WISELY, because while this will last a few more years (retirements peak in 2023) one day it will come to end and you will be STUCK where ever you happen to be for the next 20-25 years. You better be happy with it.

TiredSoul

I am.
Very much so.
For me and my specific situation and where I am in my life and career right now this is the place to be.
Never say never but I’ve given myself three years to make a decision.

Thanks for posting that by the way .

zerozero

Fair enough then.

A good pilot always has a Plan B.

I do.

boeingdvr

Atless air. Negotiations this week. Mgmt asked for concessions. No changes.