Horizon Retiring the Jets in Favor of the Q400
04-24-2008 | 11:26 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 91
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But why are they going to do that? Regionals fly what the major partners want them to fly, and pax like jets (even if they use more fuel).
Majors still want MORE 90 seaters, and probably 70 seaters. The SKW President reiterated today that there are NO plans to add new turboprops to the fleet.
There are several MAJOR projects to build NEW 70/90 seat RJ's with advanced technology materials, systems, and engines (geared-turbofans).... Mitsubishi, China, and Russia.
Nobody is designing all-new turboprops...the geared turbofan engine will probably close the efficiency gap with the turboprop engine to the point that the extra complexity, low altitude, and slowness of the turboprop is not worth it.
Majors still want MORE 90 seaters, and probably 70 seaters. The SKW President reiterated today that there are NO plans to add new turboprops to the fleet.
There are several MAJOR projects to build NEW 70/90 seat RJ's with advanced technology materials, systems, and engines (geared-turbofans).... Mitsubishi, China, and Russia.
Nobody is designing all-new turboprops...the geared turbofan engine will probably close the efficiency gap with the turboprop engine to the point that the extra complexity, low altitude, and slowness of the turboprop is not worth it.
Your right with regard to the technology side of things. I think managemnt tends to not factor in that aspect of the equation when making these decisions, and it comes bact to bite them. If they think the jet manufactuers will sit idly by and not try and improve and surpass the turbopros they are sadly mistaken.
04-24-2008 | 11:42 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,772
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From: 744 CA
plus..... and let me say.... that I commute on CRJ-200's to work.... the perception of the people i fly with when commuting is that the -200 hell even the 170's are "puddle jumpers" ( thats the words he used )..... lord knows what they will think if tons of TP's start showing up at the gate. I have nearly 1000 hours flying ATR-42's.... and that was when there were NOTHING but TP's ( well Biz EX had some 146's ) flying at this level.... and the customers were not overly fond of them then. Dont get me wrong.... I like TP's but the general opinion of the flying public is they would prefer not to fly them if they dont have to. Again, I will qualify that with it being my opinion...
If the airlines want them they better start a damn good PR campaign pushing them or it might bite them in the arse.
If the airlines want them they better start a damn good PR campaign pushing them or it might bite them in the arse.
04-24-2008 | 11:51 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 955
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From: 737 Right
I've ridden on Horizon Q's numerous times and never heard the "dangerous little propeller plane" comment from one of their customers. I think the general public (outside of Horizon's customer base) will warm up to these new airplanes, provided a good safety record is maintained and the press highlights the benefits of them.
04-24-2008 | 12:02 PM
#25
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,864
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I suspect that, in general, Horizon's clientèle are familiar and comfortable with riding on turboprops. The vast majority of their fleet has been props for quite sometime. And the Q400 isn't exactly "your father's turboprop."
I've ridden on Horizon Q's numerous times and never heard the "dangerous little propeller plane" comment from one of their customers. I think the general public (outside of Horizon's customer base) will warm up to these new airplanes, provided a good safety record is maintained and the press highlights the benefits of them.
I've ridden on Horizon Q's numerous times and never heard the "dangerous little propeller plane" comment from one of their customers. I think the general public (outside of Horizon's customer base) will warm up to these new airplanes, provided a good safety record is maintained and the press highlights the benefits of them.
The ultimate problem with t-props is versatility...with an advanced engine a turbojet can serve both short and long routes effeciently. But the prop's speed becomes a hinderance the further it goes...even if the pax don't mind an extra hour on the segment length, you still have to pay the crew, do the Mx (based on flight hours), and pay the mortgage. Plus you can't use that airplane for another revenue flight until it gets to where it's going. The pax pay for distance, they won't pay more just because a flight takes longer and thus has higher overhead costs.
04-24-2008 | 12:09 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,772
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From: 744 CA
Lots of people fly them... doesnt mean the like them.....
I personally think its a good move... but rick makes some good points....
I can tell ya Delta is the one pushing our E175's to replace the E170's we already fly for them..... what do they gain? SIX more first class seats.... same with the 900's they have in service... and its my understanding they may be converting some of the 700's to a 2 class service.....
I suspect the Q400 can be bought in a 2 class config..... that might could be a huge selling point for some companies........
Cetainly some pax just plain dont care... but I believe more care than any of us would like to admit..... Im am positive Horizon will do fine with them.
I personally think its a good move... but rick makes some good points....
I can tell ya Delta is the one pushing our E175's to replace the E170's we already fly for them..... what do they gain? SIX more first class seats.... same with the 900's they have in service... and its my understanding they may be converting some of the 700's to a 2 class service.....
I suspect the Q400 can be bought in a 2 class config..... that might could be a huge selling point for some companies........
Cetainly some pax just plain dont care... but I believe more care than any of us would like to admit..... Im am positive Horizon will do fine with them.
04-24-2008 | 12:10 PM
#28
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 15
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From: AC90
I wonder what ever happened to the geared turbofans that both GE and P&W were so hot on in the late 80's when fuel prices went through the roof? They both had test a/c with one on the back that was about 30-35% more efficient and met noise limits. They were supposed to solve the TP's speed limitations, weren't they?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan
04-24-2008 | 12:11 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 955
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From: 737 Right
Just had another thought....
I wonder how many air travelers honestly don't know (or care) if the airplane they're riding on has props or jets. Example:
My wife went on a flight not too long ago, and naturally I asked "What type of plane did you fly on?" She responded with silence and a blank look. I asked "Was it a propeller plane or a jet?" More silence.
I love my wife and she's incredibly intelligent... but some people just don't care, as long as the magic carpet takes them where they want to go. (Fade in Steppenwolf...)
I wonder how many air travelers honestly don't know (or care) if the airplane they're riding on has props or jets. Example:
My wife went on a flight not too long ago, and naturally I asked "What type of plane did you fly on?" She responded with silence and a blank look. I asked "Was it a propeller plane or a jet?" More silence.
I love my wife and she's incredibly intelligent... but some people just don't care, as long as the magic carpet takes them where they want to go. (Fade in Steppenwolf...)
04-24-2008 | 01:43 PM
#30
Swearing at the FMA
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 902
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From: MD-88 FO
I hear complaints, jokes, and crazy comments about my turboprop (BE-1900) all day long. That said, I still think that the top priority for most passengers is not safety, comfort, or noise level...they want the cheapest ticket. If it takes scads of turboprops to do such a thing, then the passengers will adapt. Also, having non-revved on the Q400 numerous times, I have never heard a passenger complaint, FWIW.
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