What's happening at Horizon and Jets?
11-26-2016, 06:33 PM
#751
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by bblake
Yikes, you guys are intense. I didn't mean to blame the union, they're doing their job and looking out for the whole pilot group, but it is part of the reasons for the delay. It's the right choice for me and my family, and the others in my class made the same decision for similar reasons. Maybe I'll get to fly with some of you guys and you can lecture me on the error of my ways.
Even his mirror image doesn't believe anything he has to say.
He wasn't hired by anybody from Horizon, don't forget that.
Also don't forget that Spokane used to be a (jet)base, just before Boise was closed.
Hope that pay supports you in a California base. Here's a extra $0.05, hahaha......
Welcome to the airline industry.
11-27-2016, 11:34 AM
#752
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: "Hey Dumb Dumb"
Posts: 109
I'll grow grapes make wine n whiskey
I've wanted nothing more than to grow up in the PNW and fly for ALK or QX but given the politically correct hiring practice of ALK and the minimum wage of QX I guess I'll sit on the sidelines and enjoy my retirement home.
As much as I want to think the pilots wouldn't sacrifice their own so senior pilots can continue to get the pay and schedule they want my 28 months as a 121 pilot has shown me that is what happens at the regional level.
I would like to hear from a senior pilot at horizon how these pay scales and schedules were voted in? There are currently two airlines that are striking or will be on strike, why won't the Horizon pilots do the same?
As much as I want to think the pilots wouldn't sacrifice their own so senior pilots can continue to get the pay and schedule they want my 28 months as a 121 pilot has shown me that is what happens at the regional level.
I would like to hear from a senior pilot at horizon how these pay scales and schedules were voted in? There are currently two airlines that are striking or will be on strike, why won't the Horizon pilots do the same?
11-27-2016, 02:41 PM
#753
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 216
As far as I know, the schedule is just a side effect of having a route structure where most of the legs are under an hour, which requires more duty hours per day than a jet to get the same number of block hours. We do have a 4 hour minimum pay per day coming somewhere down the road (2018?), but the Q400 schedules are just going to get worse until then.
The pay stems from a CBA we voted in late last year that killed our jet pay and SAP for shiny jets, which means it was signed just before the "industry standard" for FO pay jumped to $40/hr and lots of bonuses.
Since then, we've somehow managed to hire enough to keep pace with attrition, but with 30 jets showing up in the next two years, the lack of pay is going to bite management eventually.
The pay stems from a CBA we voted in late last year that killed our jet pay and SAP for shiny jets, which means it was signed just before the "industry standard" for FO pay jumped to $40/hr and lots of bonuses.
Since then, we've somehow managed to hire enough to keep pace with attrition, but with 30 jets showing up in the next two years, the lack of pay is going to bite management eventually.
11-27-2016, 02:55 PM
#754
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: "Hey Dumb Dumb"
Posts: 109
Thanks for the reply but it doesn't explain how a pilot group could vote in a pay scale where the FO makes less than the burger flippers at Sea Tac. How did the captains allows this to happen how did the teamsters even allow that to be put to a vote? What are the pilots thinking? It disgusts me to no end that pilots would sacrifice their own because of selfishness!
I hope I get to instruct at CWU and get to present exactly what Horizon, and ALK for that, matter are doing to pilot recruitment.
It cost $160,000 to go through CWUs program plus 4 years instructing BEFORE you can go to Horizon to work for peanuts!
I hope I get to instruct at CWU and get to present exactly what Horizon, and ALK for that, matter are doing to pilot recruitment.
It cost $160,000 to go through CWUs program plus 4 years instructing BEFORE you can go to Horizon to work for peanuts!
11-27-2016, 03:37 PM
#755
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by gazoo34
Thanks for the reply but it doesn't explain how a pilot group could vote in a pay scale where the FO makes less than the burger flippers at Sea Tac. How did the captains allows this to happen how did the teamsters even allow that to be put to a vote? What are the pilots thinking? It disgusts me to no end that pilots would sacrifice their own because of selfishness!
I hope I get to instruct at CWU and get to present exactly what Horizon, and ALK for that, matter are doing to pilot recruitment.
It cost $160,000 to go through CWUs program plus 4 years instructing BEFORE you can go to Horizon to work for peanuts!
I hope I get to instruct at CWU and get to present exactly what Horizon, and ALK for that, matter are doing to pilot recruitment.
It cost $160,000 to go through CWUs program plus 4 years instructing BEFORE you can go to Horizon to work for peanuts!
Oh it's simple. The company said that if the pilots didn't take concessions, then Alaska would give the E-175s to Skywest. Without those the thought was that Horizon would either shrink or slowly go out of business. So the choice was; take concessions or lose your job.
Now this is literally the oldest trick in the book, and every company since the history of unions has used it, but for some reason everybody fell for it hook, line and sinker and 70% voted Yes because they're cowards.
What's disturbing is that the union basically sided with the company and pressured pilots to take the deal. It was the first TA, they didn't even try to fix any minor issues with the contract in negotiations.
11-27-2016, 03:56 PM
#756
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 70
What's happening at Horizon and Jets?
Originally Posted by gazoo34
Thanks for the reply but it doesn't explain how a pilot group could vote in a pay scale where the FO makes less than the burger flippers at Sea Tac. How did the captains allows this to happen how did the teamsters even allow that to be put to a vote? What are the pilots thinking? It disgusts me to no end that pilots would sacrifice their own because of selfishness!
I hope I get to instruct at CWU and get to present exactly what Horizon, and ALK for that, matter are doing to pilot recruitment.
It cost $160,000 to go through CWUs program plus 4 years instructing BEFORE you can go to Horizon to work for peanuts!
I hope I get to instruct at CWU and get to present exactly what Horizon, and ALK for that, matter are doing to pilot recruitment.
It cost $160,000 to go through CWUs program plus 4 years instructing BEFORE you can go to Horizon to work for peanuts!
It's pretty simple really. The company refused to negotiate 1st year rates even thought the negotiating committee tried. Management said it was off the table, so they focused on other work rules. This was all done under the threat of reducing the fleet size by 30% if we didn't get our costs down. Many if not all who voted for the new contract believed the company would go through with it Either way they still might drive QX out of business.
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Last edited by casey135; 11-27-2016 at 04:07 PM.
11-27-2016, 04:14 PM
#757
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: "Hey Dumb Dumb"
Posts: 109
Well again it shows a weak pilot group. ALK couldn't operate right now without horizon and even with the contract ALK has Virgin to pick up excess flying when they shut down QX. It's time to stand up as pilots and demand pay commensurate with responsibility. If a QX plane has an accident it's no different than ALK having an accident so pilots should be paid the same. A very smart FO once said about 121 pilots "it's like battered wives syndrome" pilots don't realize they can stand up for themselves.
11-27-2016, 05:09 PM
#758
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,398
Originally Posted by gazoo34
Well again it shows a weak pilot group. ALK couldn't operate right now without horizon and even with the contract ALK has Virgin to pick up excess flying when they shut down QX. It's time to stand up as pilots and demand pay commensurate with responsibility. If a QX plane has an accident it's no different than ALK having an accident so pilots should be paid the same. A very smart FO once said about 121 pilots "it's like battered wives syndrome" pilots don't realize they can stand up for themselves.
When a pilot group gets too senior such as Horizon, it's a lot easier for management to use scare tactics and intimidation when the senior captains have a lot to lose and don't want to start over. .
Some of the yes voters have expressed buyers remorse and are starting to see the big picture, hence the overwhelming NO vote on the last LOA. We knew this new TA wouldn't make it 8 years before the company wanted it changed (it only took 3 months), and now we have a chance to win back some of the things they took away.
12-05-2016, 05:15 PM
#759
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: fatigued
Posts: 1,398
First jet FO class of 10 will be Feb. 20th per the CP. First E175 base will be SEA.
E175
· February 20: 10 First Officers
· March 20: 10 First Officers
· April 11: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
· April 25: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
· May 23: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
· June 6: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
· June 20: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
E175
· February 20: 10 First Officers
· March 20: 10 First Officers
· April 11: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
· April 25: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
· May 23: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
· June 6: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
· June 20: 5 First Officers, 5 Captains
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