So how is the Alaska pathways the “fastest route to a major” when wet ink captains are getting hired at delta, United, etc? Will we see the Alaska pathways requirements get reduced to clean out our now overstaffed 40 jet airline?

also is this reduction in fleet possibly a precursor to Alaska’s new contract getting a scope clause?

If AAG was thinking about scope, wouldn't they want as many regional planes on property before it goes into effect?

Anybody have any insight from the PDX town hall last week?

AS will not "absorb" them, at least not as a group... they cannot staple a pilot group due to Mccaskill-Bond. Unless it's voluntary.

AS ALPA will obviously not agree to an SLI with QX.

Senior QX will probably not voluntarily accept staple (COMAIR was actually offered that).

They could flow the QX pilots as needed, and that could possibly include furloughed pilots.

They're not just "thinking about it", they are actually negotiating about it. A big change in status quo would not go over well... arbitrator might well undo a move like that (if it came to arbitration). Such a move would also show lack of good faith, which could get AS ALPA released for self-help. They are chomping at the bit to walk as it is, I doubt mgt wants to expedite release.

Having seen McCaskill-Bond up close and personal, I do not believe it would apply to absorbing a wholly owned subsidiary regional airline being stapled.

It's not wholly owned by Alaska Airlines. It's wholly owned by Alaska Air Group. Who also happen to own AS.

If assets were transferred (the ERJs), that would almost certainly be enough value to trigger MB.

It's possible that if the ERJ's just went away and minimal or no assets were transferred to AS, then they could staple the pilots without any recourse. In that case it would really just be a flow.

Alaska wont stop hiring Skywest and military and corporate at the same time. 3 classes of 16 per month is prob more than the training department can do with the upcoming Displacement bid from the demise of the entire Airbus fleet..So more like 35 a month for new hires and half of those could be QX… take years to hire all of QX. We wont allow seniority numbers to go to pilots that are not on our seniority list. It is not anything more than we cannot trust the leadership of Alaska Airlines to not run wild with any kind of an MOU that would allow flow.

Maybe I said it wrong. What I meant was that it's not smart to shrink the regional fleet at a time when they might snapshot the current regional to major ratio and then it gets set in stone. But I'm not really sure how all of that works.

Also if AAG wanted to merge AS and QX how can ALPA just say no to that? What other choice would there be besides SLI and staple?

They may simply not have a choice... if they can't staff the planes, they probably don't want to waste the money to keep them on the cert just for headcount purposes.

Also scope language is typically a lot more forgiving for props, and props and jets are accounted for separately. If they don't envision having props long-term, then they probably don't need to carve out scope for that.

Also the "snapshot" idea is valid in practice, because it's usually a bridge to far to negotiate a reduction from current FFD levels. But nothing says you can't negotiate for more or less FFD than you currently have... if AAG wanted to, they could negotiate, at some cost, scope for X number of large props just in case they want them later.

But most likely they don't envision props in the future, although fuel efficiency and carbon issues might bring them back someday.

It would depend on the CBA, which I'm not familiar with. There are actually several options....

1. Negotiated SLI
2. Arbitrated SLI
3. Forced SLI
4. Staple

#1 was what I was referring to, that would not happen because AS ALPA would likely not give any FFD pilot seniority over one of their own. There is zero industry precedent for that which I'm aware of (COMAIR tried, and we know what that got them). Many AS pilots came from the regional ranks... they played the game to get to where they are. They will absolutely not agree to allowing another regional pilot to come in years late to the party and get seniority ahead of them. I'd only agree to something like that if I got full seniority credit for MY regional time served.

#2 could happen if the CBA or perhaps MB mandated it. This would likely not afford QX pilots much more than a staple, since earnings and career expectations are significantly lower across the board for QX.

This also only applies if the QX jets are moved to the AS certificate. I doubt AS will do that because in addition to wanting more hourly pay, the mainline benefit costs are higher for the company. Lots of majors have scope which forbids outsourcing, and none of them actually fly RJ's in house.

#3 would be hold the liquidation gun to the QX pilots' head... agree or pound the pavement. This is what SWA did to Airtran. Legal if they agree to it, even if it's under duress.

#4 would really just be a flow... if AS brought the RJ's in house, MB would preclude a pure staple although the SLI might look similar to a staple given career expectations.

Well QX is going to own 2 E175 sims for 30 aircraft and have priority on the flight safety owned one in SEA. Even if QX ends up with 45ish E175's sooner than later, does that make a lot of sense?

They were going to own two E sims before cutting the Q with the same amount of planes so they're probably needed, no?

if they are suffering the attrition that most other regionals are suffering they’ll need every one of those sims. Unless the recession slows everything down, the next couple years will be an interesting ride…

Comair was never offered that.

It's not, never was and never will be lol. When I did my pathways interview last fall, I actually asked the interviewing BCP if the program would change again and what that might look like. He took out my resume, circled my TT/PIC with a red pen and told me "If this said anything but QX at the top, you wouldn't even be sitting here". Guess what, the program changed to its current iteration 3 weeks after my interview and we now have Mesa Fos being hired externally with 0 TPIC. Great way to make your current pilots feel valuable. Pathways will take whatever form the company needs it to for the given environment and time, that's about the only thing you can count on haha. From what I can tell, the pathways list is now completely exhausted of "eligible" pilots. To be honest, there are many people on that list that I personally know and are long gone from the company. As one of those wet ink captains with a class date, I'm really looking forward to the change. Cheers

Arrogance is often an obstacle to objective problem solving.

What's happening at Horizon and Jets?

Nothing good.

CJO rescinded
 

Can anyone confirm that CJO’s from QX are being rescinded due to the retirement of the Q’s. Thanks

They rescinded mine… Got the call today.

How many weeks out was yours? And was it in the jet or the q?

Mine was a mid-summer Q class…so the news was not surprising. I am bummed, but commuting to PANC for the jet would not work well for me.

When was your interview date?

Late February.

... did they even offer a new CJO for E spot at a different date?

No. This will nearly cut their fleet in half.

I’m hoping they rescind mine. But I’m in the pilot development program and they already gave me the $12,500, so probably not

The latest word from our Flight Ops VP is they’re keeping everyone in the PDP.

[QUOTE=salukipilot;3406227]I’m hoping they rescind mine. But I’m in the pilot development program and they already gave me the $12,500, so probably not[/QUOTE

They should be giving you $125,000.

They are. Likely going to be the only pool we hire from in the next couple years.

Yes sadly I think AG thinks this will be a temporary problem for a few years. So shrinking is the way they want to go and just ride it out. I don’t see why anyone would come here now, I hear Skywest Seattle is pretty junior now.

Even more so now that they have a bunch of Seattle flying to take over :eek:

More jet deliveries
 

Announced a few days ago. QX management claims total jet count 50 airframes by... oh lordy. 2026.
Also minimum time required to be a CA before flowing via Pathways is now 6 months.

Has the last flight for the Q400 been confirmed?

Yes- Jan 26 https://www.reddit.com/r/AlaskaAirli...y_3_seats_left

This sounds kind of crazy but have heard this from two separate people saying the same thing independently. Just a rumor, but that around March Alaska is going to announce that they are 'absorbing' Horizon, one seniority list.

Can there be any truth to this? Seems outlandish but nowadays who knows.

No truth to it whatsoever

Don’t listen to rumors. The employees are airways the last to hear news, this includes rumors from check pilots and even mid level management.

Even if a merger were to happen it’d be less beneficial to QX pilots that you might suspect. Better to use pathways to get on the Alaska seniority list.

Probably not.

Because they cannot "absorb" the seniority list without doing an SLI, governed by A-M and M-B laws.

The senior QX pilots would insist on DOH and the AS pilots would openly revolt if their already lukewarm career expectations are further diluted by ANYONE coming in on top of them. So the company would kick a real hornet's nest by going there... that chaos (and legions of mainline FO resignations) would not be worth whatever benefit they might hope to gain.

It could happen if the QX union agrees to a staple, which they might or might not depending on MEC demographics and personalities. This happened before with DAL and COMAIR; the senior lifer union peeps got greedy and demanded DOH... DAL showed them the palm and then liquidated them.

Depending on QX scope protections, AAG might or might not be able to transfer the planes to AS one at a time and then "offer" the pilots new jobs. Problem there would be that AS CBA probably would not permit the assignment of "new" pilots to "DEC" RJ CA positions without a system bid. So ASALPA would have to play LOA ball somehow. Also AS CBA does not have RJ rates, so that would be a Can O' Worms too.


This smells like the kind of Big Announcement rumor that Company Men in the training dept might spread.

But ALPA does have 76 seat rates correct?

We don’t have E175 rates and that is all that matters. The training scenario alone would be a disaster. Every Alaska Airlines pilot could bid for E175 left seat which would effectively park that fleet while training occurred. Additionally, every Alaska Airlines flight attendant would have seniority to bid Ejet flying and have to be trained.
And last. It brings no benefit to Alaska Airlines to merge with one of our FFD carriers of which Horizon Air happens to be. The more likely scenario is to sell Horizon Air Industries to Skywest. That is the company that all of the employees of Horizon Air are employed by.
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