Window opens October 16th.
10-07-2017 | 04:41 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
[QUOTE=NJ123;2442548]
Their bonus is being rolled into hard pay rates. I'd say that is definitely a win for a regional airline (and all airlines) and raises the bar on compensation. Bonuses are just a band-aid fix to a problem. If voted in, this would give Endeavor FOs hard pay and a very lovable wage they can count on into the future. And senior Captains can make close to what a CA at an LCC makes. Wages are still on the rise and everyone else that isn't a regional should take note and get what you deserve from your management team.
https://pilotcareers-endeavorair.ici...st-officer/job
That link will take you to higher first year pay than JB, assuming their TA passes.
(Cue the company apologists to jump all over me as they completely miss the point.)[/QUOTE
How so? While I'll agree that their healthcare was much better when I was there, $50/hr doesn't equal $53. It also doesn't equal a 13% 401k contribution. They certainly won't see profit sharing while making a profit for Delta who are part of the same union, but don't share their profits. So ATR tell me where is the higher first year coming from? With this new "raise" they'll be losing the bonus program so as I see its kind of a wash. Much like 33% of your profit sharing so you may have an 8% hourly bump. Tit for tat.
That link will take you to higher first year pay than JB, assuming their TA passes.
(Cue the company apologists to jump all over me as they completely miss the point.)[/QUOTE
How so? While I'll agree that their healthcare was much better when I was there, $50/hr doesn't equal $53. It also doesn't equal a 13% 401k contribution. They certainly won't see profit sharing while making a profit for Delta who are part of the same union, but don't share their profits. So ATR tell me where is the higher first year coming from? With this new "raise" they'll be losing the bonus program so as I see its kind of a wash. Much like 33% of your profit sharing so you may have an 8% hourly bump. Tit for tat.
10-07-2017 | 04:56 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,088
Likes: 12
[QUOTE=chrisreedrules;2442856]
Their bonus is being rolled into hard pay rates. I'd say that is definitely a win for a regional airline (and all airlines) and raises the bar on compensation. Bonuses are just a band-aid fix to a problem. If voted in, this would give Endeavor FOs hard pay and a very lovable wage they can count on into the future. And senior Captains can make close to what a CA at an LCC makes. Wages are still on the rise and everyone else that isn't a regional should take note and get what you deserve from your management team.
Agree on everything you said except that I'm sure the vast majority of Jetblue's CA's are making a lot more than the TA'd Endeavor CA rate of $122/hour.
Their bonus is being rolled into hard pay rates. I'd say that is definitely a win for a regional airline (and all airlines) and raises the bar on compensation. Bonuses are just a band-aid fix to a problem. If voted in, this would give Endeavor FOs hard pay and a very lovable wage they can count on into the future. And senior Captains can make close to what a CA at an LCC makes. Wages are still on the rise and everyone else that isn't a regional should take note and get what you deserve from your management team.
10-07-2017 | 05:20 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
[QUOTE=nuball5;2442865]Correct but add in LCA override and premium pay and you get close and still maintain a decent QOL. Obviously not JetBlue CA rates, but more than livable and certainly worth noting for all airlines currently negotiating.
10-07-2017 | 07:08 AM
#24
Not A Janitor
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 814
Likes: 0
It's not that he does not have a valid point about the first year pay. But, I hate that style of argument. Let me throw out something which we should talk about and there are valid points on both sides. But to win my argument before we start I will label anyone that does not agree with me as a company apologists, which makes their opinions invalid. We see it all the time these day just change the word to climate deniers or racist or whatever. It's a lazy way to argue a point.
How so? While I'll agree that their healthcare was much better when I was there, $50/hr doesn't equal $53. It also doesn't equal a 13% 401k contribution. They certainly won't see profit sharing while making a profit for Delta who are part of the same union, but don't share their profits. So ATR tell me where is the higher first year coming from? With this new "raise" they'll be losing the bonus program so as I see its kind of a wash. Much like 33% of your profit sharing so you may have an 8% hourly bump. Tit for tat.
How are we supposed to recruit qualified candidates when a regional airline offers better first year compensation and better health care, and now better hotels? I see a lot of mil pilots going to 9e now for their 121 experience so they can get a well paying job instead of coming here and sticking around. Am I the only one who sees how embarrassing it is that a CRJ200 operator has better starting pay than us?
10-07-2017 | 07:30 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Not lazy... trying to head off the juicers who completely miss the point and drive the conversation away from the actual topic in an attempt to rationalize why our pay sucks.
Our first year pay is around $45,000 ($500/wk for 6-8 weeks, 53x75x10ish). I read their total comp is $67,000, although the number I came up with was $55,000. Still better than ours. I admit I'm not familiar with their current or TAd work rules, but they can't be worse than ours can they?
How are we supposed to recruit qualified candidates when a regional airline offers better first year compensation and better health care, and now better hotels? I see a lot of mil pilots going to 9e now for their 121 experience so they can get a well paying job instead of coming here and sticking around. Am I the only one who sees how embarrassing it is that a CRJ200 operator has better starting pay than us?
Our first year pay is around $45,000 ($500/wk for 6-8 weeks, 53x75x10ish). I read their total comp is $67,000, although the number I came up with was $55,000. Still better than ours. I admit I'm not familiar with their current or TAd work rules, but they can't be worse than ours can they?
How are we supposed to recruit qualified candidates when a regional airline offers better first year compensation and better health care, and now better hotels? I see a lot of mil pilots going to 9e now for their 121 experience so they can get a well paying job instead of coming here and sticking around. Am I the only one who sees how embarrassing it is that a CRJ200 operator has better starting pay than us?
10-07-2017 | 07:41 AM
#26
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Not lazy... trying to head off the juicers who completely miss the point and drive the conversation away from the actual topic in an attempt to rationalize why our pay sucks.
Our first year pay is around $45,000 ($500/wk for 6-8 weeks, 53x75x10ish). I read their total comp is $67,000, although the number I came up with was $55,000. Still better than ours. I admit I'm not familiar with their current or TAd work rules, but they can't be worse than ours can they?
How are we supposed to recruit qualified candidates when a regional airline offers better first year compensation and better health care, and now better hotels? I see a lot of mil pilots going to 9e now for their 121 experience so they can get a well paying job instead of coming here and sticking around. Am I the only one who sees how embarrassing it is that a CRJ200 operator has better starting pay than us?
Our first year pay is around $45,000 ($500/wk for 6-8 weeks, 53x75x10ish). I read their total comp is $67,000, although the number I came up with was $55,000. Still better than ours. I admit I'm not familiar with their current or TAd work rules, but they can't be worse than ours can they?
How are we supposed to recruit qualified candidates when a regional airline offers better first year compensation and better health care, and now better hotels? I see a lot of mil pilots going to 9e now for their 121 experience so they can get a well paying job instead of coming here and sticking around. Am I the only one who sees how embarrassing it is that a CRJ200 operator has better starting pay than us?
You're certainly not the only one. However I also remember what it was like to work for that company for less then $25/hr for 24 months. At the same time CAL, UAL, and the beloved DAL were all starting around $35. This was just a little less then a decade ago. All of this happening while JB was starting its new hires at ..... $47.00/hr and Spirit became the highest paid passenger airline in the country. It's cyclical. It's the process. I'm happy for the guys at 9E both the new guys from the MIL that I know that want to go back to DTW and can now make a decent wage doing it as well as the guys that have been there for the decade or more that I'd have been there. Everyone wants instant gratification. I applaud what the 9E guys have accomplished, but have a hard time thinking that our NC isn't putting together something pretty dang good for us that we can be proud of and others will congratulate us on as well.
10-07-2017 | 10:16 AM
#29
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
It was a statement made by ATR that caught my attention. In an attempt to debate with him. The very attitude that flying an A320 for JB is any better or worse then flying a 777 for Delta or a CRJ for bubbas air service speaks volumes to me. They negotiated a deal and the company said sure we can do that. It’s a cyclical process. As far as 9E goes they waited on a 99’ contract until 2010. They then went into bk 18 months later and were given the pre merger xj rates until this vote. Yes the company threw them a bone and gave them the “bonus”. Go ahead and tell a guy that waited nearly a decade for hiring to start elsewhere that he’s over paid because he flys a regional jet while we almighty here at jb are competing directly with said RJ in JAX, SAV, CHS, DEN, AUS, BTV, BUF, ROC. Point is all pilots deserve a fair wage. All ALPA Pilots should be happy for other ALPA Pilots getting the next better deal. Finally yes to quote someone else “better get while the gettin is good”.The next decade could be amazing or it could suck as the last one did.
10-08-2017 | 06:13 AM
#30
Not A Janitor
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 814
Likes: 0
It was a statement made by ATR that caught my attention. In an attempt to debate with him. The very attitude that flying an A320 for JB is any better or worse then flying a 777 for Delta or a CRJ for bubbas air service speaks volumes to me. They negotiated a deal and the company said sure we can do that. It’s a cyclical process. As far as 9E goes they waited on a 99’ contract until 2010. They then went into bk 18 months later and were given the pre merger xj rates until this vote. Yes the company threw them a bone and gave them the “bonus”. Go ahead and tell a guy that waited nearly a decade for hiring to start elsewhere that he’s over paid because he flys a regional jet while we almighty here at jb are competing directly with said RJ in JAX, SAV, CHS, DEN, AUS, BTV, BUF, ROC. Point is all pilots deserve a fair wage. All ALPA Pilots should be happy for other ALPA Pilots getting the next better deal. Finally yes to quote someone else “better get while the gettin is good”.The next decade could be amazing or it could suck as the last one did.
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