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- - SWA or JB? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/jetblue/121165-swa-jb.html)

London is going to go great....

Quote:

Originally Posted by hilltopflyer (Post 2806215)

London is going to go great....

Definitely. They are going to make BOS/JFK trans-atlantic a separate bid class from the regular A320. They will staff each base with 16 FOs/CAs + 2 Virtual Spare trans-atlantic pilots. All other A320 pilots won't be trained.

What could possibly go wrong, I mean, they are going to include 2 Virtual Spare trans-atlantic pilots? Foolproof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clear Right (Post 2806137)

My bad: Clearly not educated enough on the CBA. Just tried to say something positive, but clearly need to go read the contract. Thank you all for correcting me.

Sorry for jumping on you. Just frustrated. You didn't deserve to be the subject of my being ****ed off.

My apologies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donpizmeov2 (Post 2806171)

And just to continue the educational process, it would be interesting to know how SWA handles these situation!

Can’t really compare because SWA isn’t implementing their first contract. What JB did will be fine (and is in the CBA) in a few months (or whenever) after the rest is implemented/turned on. They just jumped the gun on one section because they needed to get out of a jam. Regarding premium pay, JetBlue has 3 more holiday pay days (6) than SWA (3), as well as scenarios where premium pay is 150/175/200%, whereas SWA is always 150%.

As for staffing, I’d guess SWA is better staffed but who knows. Regardless, they tend to handle irops a lot better. When the east coast is getting hammered, they have a lot of other places they fly and can absorb the disruption in the system. JetBlue gets destroyed when the east coast has weather because there is no place for relief in the system, and the effects snowball throughout the day. And SWA has AM and PM shifts with no red eye flying...kind of a reset period. JetBlue has all sorts of shifts throughout the day and night, so when crews start getting disrupted it’s a puzzle trying to find crews and planes that fit....and what looks legal on paper for an assignment can quickly turn illegal when delays continue to cascade, then crews timeout, rinse, repeat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 2806076)

Glad you took the time to write this, epic post. You sir, get a double-Lift award and a culture handshake.

Yup spot on

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunkerF16 (Post 2806125)

You're kidding, right? Their response to the latest IROP was a direct violation of the CBA. They can't unilaterally offer premium open time. There are several section in the contract that are required to be implemented before this section was activated. This was agreed upon specifically so that sections that benefited the pilots weren't delayed while sections that were beneficial to the company were implemented earlier.

But hey. Double pay, AMIRIGHT??!!

Exactly, why have a contract. Oh and all of you guys stuck in an irop anyone with a weather map could see coming, sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360KIAS (Post 2805831)

That pesky little fact that the grass isn't always greener out there. Who'd a thunk it?

And cancellations cause passengers to seize open rooms before we have a chance to process the cancellation internally sometimes.

But the big problem is and I have only been here 7 years is it’s not getting better. Sure the grass might not be greener but we have a ton of weeds and bare spots.

What annoys me is JetBlue HAS THE MONEY to fix this and they won’t do it. Or if they will it’s like some 5 year plan. Well that’s not acceptable. I get tech ventures because you don’t want to be the cab company and get ubered but go hire the ops guy from Delta pay him double give him the actual ability to fix things and be an airline vs identitying as one. It’s going to cost money that’s all there is to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotpayne (Post 2806364)

Funny you mention cabs and Uber. Lyft and Uber are burning through billions in investors’ cash annually and are far from profitability, yet still fetch insane valuations. Fortunately for them they have raised ungodly amounts of money, but they aren’t slowing down ripping through it, and people are continuing to invest in them. So, if JB think throwing money into these startups is a good hedge against a disruption to a very thin margin, highly competitive industry, I’d point to the actual financials of Uber and Lyft...and the aviation industry is probably a million times harder to disrupt with the giants on the manufacturing and operating side. It’s not nearly as simple as a car driving business. Turns out moving people from point A to point B, even in someone else’s car with “contracted” labor is still not as good a business plan as the good ol taxi company, at least until driverless cars are part of that business plan.

From another site (financial times I think?) on the Uber IPO prospectus:

Quote:

An account by the name of “horsesatemymoney” provided this analysis:

Abbreviated version of prospectus

We don’t make money

We probably will never make money

Our current business relies on shareholders to fund cheap cab rides in the hope that regulators will let us become a monopoly and charge whatever we want but the regulators are not playing along

We have therefore spent more money expanding into other low margin highly competitive activities like food delivery or trucking despite there being lots of specialist logistics firms so not obvious how we are going to make any money there either

We hope in the future there will be driverless cars and that we can then make money because no drivers but other people are developing them too

We have annoyed lots of regulators so we have lots of disputes and problems with regulators

We don’t pay much tax and have done lots of aggressive tax planning and so we have lots of disputes and problems with tax authorities

We don’t employ anyone (or we say we don’t) but we have lots of de facto employees and so we have lots of disputes and problems with drivers and employment tribunals

We don’t actually own many assets because we managed to get our drivers to provide their own cars

We have an app but other cab companies also have apps

Current investors want to get out and so we hope you will buy some shares anyway because you have heard of us also we need more money to fund the businesses that don’t make money

We are expanding into more business lines that don’t make money and we need more money to fund those

We are really big and you have heard of us plus we say we are a tech disruptor so don’t worry that we make no money it will all be great because you will be an Uber investor

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatNavy (Post 2806256)

You know your stuff! And if you are still in JB something tells me it is not because you do not have other options!

Quote:

Originally Posted by n606tw (Post 2806386)

You know your stuff! And if you are still in JB something tells me it is not because you do not have other options!

For the record I don't claim to work (or not work) at any particular airline, nor do I claim to have options to work at any airline. I may be a GoJet lifer who enjoys hanging out on the JB forum and comparing airline contracts ;). I have a lot of friends who like it at JB and don't want to go anywhere else. I also have some friends who are at JB trying to get to a legacy. I have a lot of friends who are at JB who tried to get to a legacy but then got senior or upgraded and didn't want to start over after several years there. I think the biggest factor in choosing a major airline is who calls you first, followed by base location/contract if all else is equal, and whether or not resetting seniority is worth it if a hotter chick (better airline) ends up calling you (financial crossover point if applicable, projected hiring, movement, age, all that stuff). The best airline to work for changes over time, and in a 30-40 year career, who knows where "the best" will be on retirement day. It's all a partly educated gamble based on a snapshot at the time someone is applying to airlines and the options he/she has at the time.