Most posters here can handle opposing opinions. When those opinions seem to not be based in fact, or are carrying water for management, many posters have a rightfully negative reaction to them. As I tried to say earlier (apparently less eloquently) in a moderator-deleted post, this board is certainly more "blue juicy" than BP and that gets some push back from those of us who are more pro-pilot.

Anyhow, you can post numbers as much as you want, but you can't argue with the fact that many, many guys are taking home less money now than they were before. All pilots should be aware that pay rates are not a direct function of take home pay, and that is why such an emphasis is placed on other sections of the contract in addition to Section 3.

Personally, I received--on paper--a significant pay raise, however my take home income is flat.

With respect to the earlier debate among you and other posters, consider how your pro-company cheerleading may be taken by someone who has taken a very real pay cut under the CBA. Their frustration is warranted.

Not sure what you're trying to say in the edit, but:

It was a de facto increase of 2%. De minimis.

3+5+5. Anyone not contributing 5% to get the match was leaving money on the table. So, the company's contribution went from 13 to 15. Definitely an improvement, but not one to boost contrails' argument that we are now swimming in cash.

I’m pro pilot. Just not pro 5 sandwich’s.

Not cheerleading for the company. More like sticking up for the NC and the 75% of the group that found the CBA decent enough to vote yes.

You’re in Lala land with this chicken little routine

I think that's where a lot of people are going off the rails.

Who cares about sticking up for someone for how they voted? Why are people's egos the focus here? Who cares? The focus should be on the very real impact of the CBA, and highlighting the drawbacks so they may hopefully be fixed or mitigated next time around.

Making excuses for management, the NC, yes voters etc etc etc does nothing to further our goals. Neither does trying to tell someone they received a 30% raise when they actually didn't. That is in fact detrimental to our goals for CBA 2.0.

When people bring up legitimate criticisms, they are labeled as malcontents or chicken littles by those who are furthering management's agenda, whether intentionally or not. Why can't we get over our egos and focus on what needs to be improved instead of attacking those who are shining the light on these issues?

Just because 75% voted yes doesn’t mean those 75% thought it was good.

He went from 30% increase in Pilot CASM to 30% increase in total pilot cost by the amendable date.

Two different numbers.

Sure total pilot costs will increase but largely driven by fleet numbers and complexity (essentially 4 fleets) and conveniently attributed to the pilot contract.

Total operating CASM less fuel has increased 1% since the contract was implemented.

Exactly right.

Wait a minute. Aren’t you the guard guy who left the company for several years while you accumulated seniority, and picked up VDAs and additional flying during negotiations? Forgive me if I am wrong, but if this is true, then perhaps your vision for this company is a tad skewed compared to those who have worked here the last 10 years or more.

The 74% thought it was BETTER. Please, for the love of all that is holy, do NOT be the guy you were before & during your time at EDV. Silence is a virtue at many levels.

So that's the bar? Better? We were so far down below our peers ANYTHING would have been better.

When you play leap frog (pattern bargaining), you're suppose to leap the frog in front of you, not to the back of the line, only to quickly watch all the other frogs hop away from you into the distance.