What it would take to be a yes to LOA13
02-02-2021, 01:34 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 537
What it would take to be a yes to LOA13
I don’t always negotiate in public, but when I’m fighting a sell job from both the union and the company, sometimes it is necessary. Here is what would move me to a “yes.”
1) Restoration of previous profit sharing formula & eliminate cliff (if the company profits off of our CBA relief that allows for the deal, we damn sure better get a share of it)
2) Change the 2% raise in May of this year to 3%, and 3% in May 2022, and 3% May 2023, with no change to section 6 timelines
3) Furlough protection for as long as the NEA is in effect
4) Guaranteed minimum staffing levels on an *annual* lookback basis (not 2025), with 2020 as the baseline, not 2021
5) ASM/Block hour growth minimums based on a known quantity from 2019/2020, not unknown 2021 levels.
6) Restriction on AE flying current and past B6 routes that weren’t previously flown by Eagle. Not just FC to FC and intl restrictions (still working on a viable way to capture this).
7) B6 required to maintain or increase their total percentage of ASMs AND block hours, evaluated annually, amongst the combined AA/AE/B6 ASMs from the average of 2019+2020 levels to/from NEA cities, with no provisions for making it up if they aren’t compliant. Codified monetary payouts if not compliant. In other words, every year the company is required to be compliant in growing B6’s share of flying, and have zero room to maneuver to let AE take our flying.
8) Make the 2 additional reserve days off from LOA 12 permanent, essentially changing the value of a reserve day from 4:12 to 5:00, the minimum for a fly day.
9) I’m probably missing a few more. Feel free to add.
If this deal is as good as they say it is for the company, they can swing all that. Until then, after this TA goes down in flames, I’ll be a no until they get serious.
1) Restoration of previous profit sharing formula & eliminate cliff (if the company profits off of our CBA relief that allows for the deal, we damn sure better get a share of it)
2) Change the 2% raise in May of this year to 3%, and 3% in May 2022, and 3% May 2023, with no change to section 6 timelines
3) Furlough protection for as long as the NEA is in effect
4) Guaranteed minimum staffing levels on an *annual* lookback basis (not 2025), with 2020 as the baseline, not 2021
5) ASM/Block hour growth minimums based on a known quantity from 2019/2020, not unknown 2021 levels.
6) Restriction on AE flying current and past B6 routes that weren’t previously flown by Eagle. Not just FC to FC and intl restrictions (still working on a viable way to capture this).
7) B6 required to maintain or increase their total percentage of ASMs AND block hours, evaluated annually, amongst the combined AA/AE/B6 ASMs from the average of 2019+2020 levels to/from NEA cities, with no provisions for making it up if they aren’t compliant. Codified monetary payouts if not compliant. In other words, every year the company is required to be compliant in growing B6’s share of flying, and have zero room to maneuver to let AE take our flying.
8) Make the 2 additional reserve days off from LOA 12 permanent, essentially changing the value of a reserve day from 4:12 to 5:00, the minimum for a fly day.
9) I’m probably missing a few more. Feel free to add.
If this deal is as good as they say it is for the company, they can swing all that. Until then, after this TA goes down in flames, I’ll be a no until they get serious.
02-02-2021, 02:12 PM
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by copy
I don’t always negotiate in public, but when I’m fighting a sell job from both the union and the company, sometimes it is necessary. Here is what would move me to a “yes.”
1) Restoration of previous profit sharing formula & eliminate cliff (if the company profits off of our CBA relief that allows for the deal, we damn sure better get a share of it)
2) Change the 2% raise in May of this year to 3%, and 3% in May 2022, and 3% May 2023, with no change to section 6 timelines
3) Furlough protection for as long as the NEA is in effect
4) Guaranteed minimum staffing levels on an *annual* lookback basis (not 2025), with 2020 as the baseline, not 2021
5) ASM/Block hour growth minimums based on a known quantity from 2019/2020, not unknown 2021 levels.
6) Restriction on AE flying current and past B6 routes that weren’t previously flown by Eagle. Not just FC to FC and intl restrictions (still working on a viable way to capture this).
7) B6 required to maintain or increase their total percentage of ASMs AND block hours, evaluated annually, amongst the combined AA/AE/B6 ASMs from the average of 2019+2020 levels to/from NEA cities, with no provisions for making it up if they aren’t compliant. Codified monetary payouts if not compliant. In other words, every year the company is required to be compliant in growing B6’s share of flying, and have zero room to maneuver to let AE take our flying.
8) Make the 2 additional reserve days off from LOA 12 permanent, essentially changing the value of a reserve day from 4:12 to 5:00, the minimum for a fly day.
9) I’m probably missing a few more. Feel free to add.
If this deal is as good as they say it is for the company, they can swing all that. Until then, after this TA goes down in flames, I’ll be a no until they get serious.
1) Restoration of previous profit sharing formula & eliminate cliff (if the company profits off of our CBA relief that allows for the deal, we damn sure better get a share of it)
2) Change the 2% raise in May of this year to 3%, and 3% in May 2022, and 3% May 2023, with no change to section 6 timelines
3) Furlough protection for as long as the NEA is in effect
4) Guaranteed minimum staffing levels on an *annual* lookback basis (not 2025), with 2020 as the baseline, not 2021
5) ASM/Block hour growth minimums based on a known quantity from 2019/2020, not unknown 2021 levels.
6) Restriction on AE flying current and past B6 routes that weren’t previously flown by Eagle. Not just FC to FC and intl restrictions (still working on a viable way to capture this).
7) B6 required to maintain or increase their total percentage of ASMs AND block hours, evaluated annually, amongst the combined AA/AE/B6 ASMs from the average of 2019+2020 levels to/from NEA cities, with no provisions for making it up if they aren’t compliant. Codified monetary payouts if not compliant. In other words, every year the company is required to be compliant in growing B6’s share of flying, and have zero room to maneuver to let AE take our flying.
8) Make the 2 additional reserve days off from LOA 12 permanent, essentially changing the value of a reserve day from 4:12 to 5:00, the minimum for a fly day.
9) I’m probably missing a few more. Feel free to add.
If this deal is as good as they say it is for the company, they can swing all that. Until then, after this TA goes down in flames, I’ll be a no until they get serious.
02-02-2021, 02:33 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: fifi whisperer
Posts: 1,255
Originally Posted by copy
I don’t always negotiate in public, but when I’m fighting a sell job from both the union and the company, sometimes it is necessary. Here is what would move me to a “yes.”
1) Restoration of previous profit sharing formula & eliminate cliff (if the company profits off of our CBA relief that allows for the deal, we damn sure better get a share of it)
2) Change the 2% raise in May of this year to 3%, and 3% in May 2022, and 3% May 2023, with no change to section 6 timelines
3) Furlough protection for as long as the NEA is in effect
4) Guaranteed minimum staffing levels on an *annual* lookback basis (not 2025), with 2020 as the baseline, not 2021
5) ASM/Block hour growth minimums based on a known quantity from 2019/2020, not unknown 2021 levels.
6) Restriction on AE flying current and past B6 routes that weren’t previously flown by Eagle. Not just FC to FC and intl restrictions (still working on a viable way to capture this).
7) B6 required to maintain or increase their total percentage of ASMs AND block hours, evaluated annually, amongst the combined AA/AE/B6 ASMs from the average of 2019+2020 levels to/from NEA cities, with no provisions for making it up if they aren’t compliant. Codified monetary payouts if not compliant. In other words, every year the company is required to be compliant in growing B6’s share of flying, and have zero room to maneuver to let AE take our flying.
8) Make the 2 additional reserve days off from LOA 12 permanent, essentially changing the value of a reserve day from 4:12 to 5:00, the minimum for a fly day.
9) I’m probably missing a few more. Feel free to add.
If this deal is as good as they say it is for the company, they can swing all that. Until then, after this TA goes down in flames, I’ll be a no until they get serious.
1) Restoration of previous profit sharing formula & eliminate cliff (if the company profits off of our CBA relief that allows for the deal, we damn sure better get a share of it)
2) Change the 2% raise in May of this year to 3%, and 3% in May 2022, and 3% May 2023, with no change to section 6 timelines
3) Furlough protection for as long as the NEA is in effect
4) Guaranteed minimum staffing levels on an *annual* lookback basis (not 2025), with 2020 as the baseline, not 2021
5) ASM/Block hour growth minimums based on a known quantity from 2019/2020, not unknown 2021 levels.
6) Restriction on AE flying current and past B6 routes that weren’t previously flown by Eagle. Not just FC to FC and intl restrictions (still working on a viable way to capture this).
7) B6 required to maintain or increase their total percentage of ASMs AND block hours, evaluated annually, amongst the combined AA/AE/B6 ASMs from the average of 2019+2020 levels to/from NEA cities, with no provisions for making it up if they aren’t compliant. Codified monetary payouts if not compliant. In other words, every year the company is required to be compliant in growing B6’s share of flying, and have zero room to maneuver to let AE take our flying.
8) Make the 2 additional reserve days off from LOA 12 permanent, essentially changing the value of a reserve day from 4:12 to 5:00, the minimum for a fly day.
9) I’m probably missing a few more. Feel free to add.
If this deal is as good as they say it is for the company, they can swing all that. Until then, after this TA goes down in flames, I’ll be a no until they get serious.
Please don't negotiate in public, hurts the union and our position.
If you really hate the LOA, tell the union, directly. Tell them why you are voting no, and tell them what would take you to be a yes.
02-02-2021, 03:38 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by seekingblue
Please don't negotiate in public, hurts the union and our position.
If you really hate the LOA, tell the union, directly. Tell them why you are voting no, and tell them what would take you to be a yes.
If you really hate the LOA, tell the union, directly. Tell them why you are voting no, and tell them what would take you to be a yes.
02-02-2021, 03:42 PM
#5
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by copy
Lol. They know exactly how I feel. And this doesn’t hurt our position. What hurts our position is our current MEC.
02-02-2021, 03:45 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: fifi whisperer
Posts: 1,255
Originally Posted by copy
Lol. They know exactly how I feel. And this doesn’t hurt our position. What hurts our position is our current MEC.
Respectfully, what hurts our position is managment seeing this. Go on blue pilots, jblupilots or the farm and post this Or, call your rep and tell the it is horrible.
02-02-2021, 03:48 PM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by seekingblue
Respectfully, what hurts our position is managment seeing this. Go on blue pilots, jblupilots or the farm and post this Or, call your rep and tell the it is horrible.
What will do way more damage to this pilot group than anything is people voting YES to this LOA..
02-02-2021, 04:00 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by seekingblue
Respectfully, what hurts our position is managment seeing this. Go on blue pilots, jblupilots or the farm and post this Or, call your rep and tell the it is horrible.
BTW, I’d settle for management promising not to take advantage of us for the next 12 years. “That’s as good as money, sir.” SMH
02-02-2021, 04:48 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by seekingblue
Respectfully, what hurts our position is managment seeing this. Go on blue pilots, jblupilots or the farm and post this Or, call your rep and tell the it is horrible.
We are not currently negotiating anything all we are doing is voting. Heck the union didn’t even ask what we would want.
02-02-2021, 04:54 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by seekingblue
Please don't negotiate in public, hurts the union and our position.
If you really hate the LOA, tell the union, directly. Tell them why you are voting no, and tell them what would take you to be a yes.
If you really hate the LOA, tell the union, directly. Tell them why you are voting no, and tell them what would take you to be a yes.
This TA is proof that negoating behind close doors isn't the answer. Solid and resonable list.
