What it would take to be a yes to LOA13
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 55
Yes
If you listened carefully today, they are basically saying we are going down without this. Robins email yesterday flat out said we can’t continue the cash burn. It’s not sustainable. Also. - Scott mentioned some of the hard things they had to look at in the fall, like getting rid of the 190’s and all the bad things that come with that but JB wanted to grow out of this unlike other airlines that are furloughing and shedding airplanes. Its a smart move. AA is struggling and probably will have more problems. This is a chance to snag slots we otherwise could never get (he said we cant win that bidding war) and increase our flying and dig out of this hole. Take flip side of this is dumping the 190’s early, shrinking our company and furloughing a **** load of us. I’m not thrilled with the language, but try to look at this from this perspective - the company is against the wall. It has a shot of getting out of this in a way that could make us stronger. Or we can say the hell with it and shoot the golden goose.
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 537
If you listened carefully today, they are basically saying we are going down without this. Robins email yesterday flat out said we can’t continue the cash burn. It’s not sustainable. Also. - Scott mentioned some of the hard things they had to look at in the fall, like getting rid of the 190’s and all the bad things that come with that but JB wanted to grow out of this unlike other airlines that are furloughing and shedding airplanes. Its a smart move. AA is struggling and probably will have more problems. This is a chance to snag slots we otherwise could never get (he said we cant win that bidding war) and increase our flying and dig out of this hole. Take flip side of this is dumping the 190’s early, shrinking our company and furloughing a **** load of us. I’m not thrilled with the language, but try to look at this from this perspective - the company is against the wall. It has a shot of getting out of this in a way that could make us stronger. Or we can say the hell with it and shoot the golden goose.
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 64
If you listened carefully today, they are basically saying we are going down without this. Robins email yesterday flat out said we can’t continue the cash burn. It’s not sustainable. Also. - Scott mentioned some of the hard things they had to look at in the fall, like getting rid of the 190’s and all the bad things that come with that but JB wanted to grow out of this unlike other airlines that are furloughing and shedding airplanes. Its a smart move. AA is struggling and probably will have more problems. This is a chance to snag slots we otherwise could never get (he said we cant win that bidding war) and increase our flying and dig out of this hole. Take flip side of this is dumping the 190’s early, shrinking our company and furloughing a **** load of us. I’m not thrilled with the language, but try to look at this from this perspective - the company is against the wall. It has a shot of getting out of this in a way that could make us stronger. Or we can say the hell with it and shoot the golden goose.
We are not going to shoot the golden goose.... this is plain and simple...If they want it bad enough they will come right back to us with a better deal....
What do you think is going to happen? We vote this down and Robin and crew just throw their hands up in the air and say "well, we tried.. let's closed the doors and shut'er down""
Did you think they would say today that "if the pilots vote this one down we will sweeten the deal for them??"
really??? you guys have got to be smarter than that!!!
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 699
If you listened carefully today, they are basically saying we are going down without this. Robins email yesterday flat out said we can’t continue the cash burn. It’s not sustainable. Also. - Scott mentioned some of the hard things they had to look at in the fall, like getting rid of the 190’s and all the bad things that come with that but JB wanted to grow out of this unlike other airlines that are furloughing and shedding airplanes. Its a smart move. AA is struggling and probably will have more problems. This is a chance to snag slots we otherwise could never get (he said we cant win that bidding war) and increase our flying and dig out of this hole. Take flip side of this is dumping the 190’s early, shrinking our company and furloughing a **** load of us. I’m not thrilled with the language, but try to look at this from this perspective - the company is against the wall. It has a shot of getting out of this in a way that could make us stronger. Or we can say the hell with it and shoot the golden goose.
Obviously the Company wants and needs this. We NO voters would be happy to accommodate them just on better terms.
Let’s START with a pay bump NOW, furlough protection for the next 2 yrs and tighten up the language... the deal is already inked and went through DOT/ DOJ review, by oversight or negligence Mgt have handed our NC quite a bit of leverage which they squandered apparently, with a No vote the membership has placed the leverage back in the hands of the NC with a mandate from us of what is required to get the deal done.
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: B6
Posts: 1,047
If you listened carefully today, they are basically saying we are going down without this. Robins email yesterday flat out said we can’t continue the cash burn. It’s not sustainable. Also. - Scott mentioned some of the hard things they had to look at in the fall, like getting rid of the 190’s and all the bad things that come with that but JB wanted to grow out of this unlike other airlines that are furloughing and shedding airplanes. Its a smart move. AA is struggling and probably will have more problems. This is a chance to snag slots we otherwise could never get (he said we cant win that bidding war) and increase our flying and dig out of this hole. Take flip side of this is dumping the 190’s early, shrinking our company and furloughing a **** load of us. I’m not thrilled with the language, but try to look at this from this perspective - the company is against the wall. It has a shot of getting out of this in a way that could make us stronger. Or we can say the hell with it and shoot the golden goose.
#26
On a scale of 1 to 10, how important are the following to you: (etc)
Launch the survey as soon as the votes are in. Then go back and negotiate LOA 14 based on LOA 13 and the secret survey results. Revote. Done in 6 - 8 weeks. Deal is still on, but with protections in place.
If the company doesn’t budge on the Focus City and International scope carve-outs, then we know we were correct in not trusting LOA 13.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 699
I’d like to think that the NC is prepared with a survey: “what would get you to vote yes?”
On a scale of 1 to 10, how important are the following to you: (etc)
Launch the survey as soon as the votes are in. Then go back and negotiate LOA 14 based on LOA 13 and the secret survey results. Revote. Done in 6 - 8 weeks. Deal is still on, but with protections in place.
If the company doesn’t budge on the Focus City and International scope carve-outs, then we know we were correct in not trusting LOA 13.
On a scale of 1 to 10, how important are the following to you: (etc)
Launch the survey as soon as the votes are in. Then go back and negotiate LOA 14 based on LOA 13 and the secret survey results. Revote. Done in 6 - 8 weeks. Deal is still on, but with protections in place.
If the company doesn’t budge on the Focus City and International scope carve-outs, then we know we were correct in not trusting LOA 13.
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 25
A good question to ask is if JetBlue already signed the agreement with American. The agreement does not have any clause allowing them to cancel because of a labor cba. If they signed already they are on the hook for a massive cancellation fee. In that case, they have no choice but to come back to the pilot group and offer something that will pass.
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,187
make hyper our nc chairman for this.
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: CA
Posts: 1,198
If you listened carefully today, they are basically saying we are going down without this. Robins email yesterday flat out said we can’t continue the cash burn. It’s not sustainable. Also. - Scott mentioned some of the hard things they had to look at in the fall, like getting rid of the 190’s and all the bad things that come with that but JB wanted to grow out of this unlike other airlines that are furloughing and shedding airplanes. Its a smart move. AA is struggling and probably will have more problems. This is a chance to snag slots we otherwise could never get (he said we cant win that bidding war) and increase our flying and dig out of this hole. Take flip side of this is dumping the 190’s early, shrinking our company and furloughing a **** load of us. I’m not thrilled with the language, but try to look at this from this perspective - the company is against the wall. It has a shot of getting out of this in a way that could make us stronger. Or we can say the hell with it and shoot the golden goose.