What it would take to be a yes to LOA13
02-03-2021, 07:05 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by Desdi
Like I said:
“ELT that will be under pressure from the BOD for jeopardizing the full realization of the NEA by low balling the pilots”
let’s start to realize leverage when we actually have it, at the very least for more than just 2%. Just like the Summer on 2018... don’t just **** leverage away The ELT is in the hot seat, They have obviously sold the BOD on this once in a lifetime opportunity and have their blessing. 2% and a bunch of Swiss cheese language..... Really?..... Really?
“ELT that will be under pressure from the BOD for jeopardizing the full realization of the NEA by low balling the pilots”
let’s start to realize leverage when we actually have it, at the very least for more than just 2%. Just like the Summer on 2018... don’t just **** leverage away The ELT is in the hot seat, They have obviously sold the BOD on this once in a lifetime opportunity and have their blessing. 2% and a bunch of Swiss cheese language..... Really?..... Really?
AA needs the deal and JetBlue would love to have the deal. So how about we vote no and actually negotiate with these guys vs just saying hey thanks for the 2% you love me you really love me
02-03-2021, 07:13 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
That is exactly right. It’s like they are playing cards with their hand exposed yet acting like we have no clue what cards they have.
AA needs the deal and JetBlue would love to have the deal. So how about we vote no and actually negotiate with these guys vs just saying hey thanks for the 2% you love me you really love me
AA needs the deal and JetBlue would love to have the deal. So how about we vote no and actually negotiate with these guys vs just saying hey thanks for the 2% you love me you really love me
Last edited by Desdi; 02-03-2021 at 07:27 PM.
02-03-2021, 07:32 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by Desdi
I just want some in the pilot group to see it’s not the end of the world voting something down, negotiations continue until a deal is struck.... it would be good for our whole group to learn that lesson before contract openers. Don’t sell yourself short with the 1st offer if you have misgivings..... negotiate until you are comfortable before you sign.
02-03-2021, 07:47 PM
#65
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,511
Negotiations are won and lost based on who has the leverage and who’s got the time.
During negotiations, the company usually has no time constraints thanks to the RLA. Pilots have a self-imposed time constraint because they don’t get a raise until the deal is done. Pilots will bite at a substandard deal because “some money now is better than more money years from now.”
The Leverage advantage could go either way, but usually the pilots have very little in negotiations. Even less when their scope is full of holes and they are competing with another pilot group, i.e. the regionals or during a merger.
When the company needs to nullify a pilot group’s leverage, they commonly resort to scare tactics.
It is a very rare case where the pilot group has the double advantage of both leverage and time. I’d call it the opportunity of the decade.
During negotiations, the company usually has no time constraints thanks to the RLA. Pilots have a self-imposed time constraint because they don’t get a raise until the deal is done. Pilots will bite at a substandard deal because “some money now is better than more money years from now.”
The Leverage advantage could go either way, but usually the pilots have very little in negotiations. Even less when their scope is full of holes and they are competing with another pilot group, i.e. the regionals or during a merger.
When the company needs to nullify a pilot group’s leverage, they commonly resort to scare tactics.
It is a very rare case where the pilot group has the double advantage of both leverage and time. I’d call it the opportunity of the decade.
02-03-2021, 07:55 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by Boomer
Negotiations are won and lost based on who has the leverage and who’s got the time.
During negotiations, the company usually has no time constraints thanks to the RLA. Pilots have a self-imposed time constraint because they don’t get a raise until the deal is done. Pilots will bite at a substandard deal because “some money now is better than more money years from now.”
The Leverage advantage could go either way, but usually the pilots have very little in negotiations. Even less when their scope is full of holes and they are competing with another pilot group, i.e. the regionals or during a merger.
When the company needs to nullify a pilot group’s leverage, they commonly resort to scare tactics.
It is a very rare case where the pilot group has the double advantage of both leverage and time. I’d call it the opportunity of the decade.
During negotiations, the company usually has no time constraints thanks to the RLA. Pilots have a self-imposed time constraint because they don’t get a raise until the deal is done. Pilots will bite at a substandard deal because “some money now is better than more money years from now.”
The Leverage advantage could go either way, but usually the pilots have very little in negotiations. Even less when their scope is full of holes and they are competing with another pilot group, i.e. the regionals or during a merger.
When the company needs to nullify a pilot group’s leverage, they commonly resort to scare tactics.
It is a very rare case where the pilot group has the double advantage of both leverage and time. I’d call it the opportunity of the decade.
(PSA)
We have the ball because we negotiated for it and stood in the cold for it and fought for it. If we didn’t have it they wouldn’t be asking us for a deal they would be telling us about the deal.
02-04-2021, 04:13 AM
#67
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
or a deal that only comes around once in a generation?
(PSA)
We have the ball because we negotiated for it and stood in the cold for it and fought for it. If we didn’t have it they wouldn’t be asking us for a deal they would be telling us about the deal.
(PSA)
We have the ball because we negotiated for it and stood in the cold for it and fought for it. If we didn’t have it they wouldn’t be asking us for a deal they would be telling us about the deal.
100% spot on
why is isn't AMR asking APA to vote on this deal??
Answer; because they don't have to.
02-04-2021, 05:00 AM
#68
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Bgood
Hey Docs, I'm on the chopping block like you. Just realize voting down this TA doesn't mean the codeshare won't happen. They just won't be able to put their code on an AA/AE flight between our NE bases or our NE base to int'l that is within our aircraft capability. Instead, we would continue to fly that plus the extra flights that would come from the codeshare. So we will still have growth regardless plus still have our protections, therefore we shouldn't be too quick to give relief (or give it at all). That's our furlough protection.
I expected nothing less than a the-sky-will-fall-if-it-fails conversation from mgmt today. They are the one that need it.
I expected nothing less than a the-sky-will-fall-if-it-fails conversation from mgmt today. They are the one that need it.
02-04-2021, 05:04 AM
#70
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
Ha you don’t know me very well. I absolutely would counter you with what I posted in person is “come on” that offensive, I’m very snarky it’s why I don’t have friends
Post or don’t post but when you do you open yourself up. If you are going to walk out and say if we don’t vote yes the company will forget the deal and furlough you better be ready for some push back.
You remind me of my old sim partner who (is probably reading this) was an absolute atheist and had stickers all over his flight bag bashing people who believe in GOD yet he could not understand why some would take issue with that. Say what you want but you better expect to be challenged.
If you think that’s true great. I think that is a very extreme view.
Post or don’t post but when you do you open yourself up. If you are going to walk out and say if we don’t vote yes the company will forget the deal and furlough you better be ready for some push back.
You remind me of my old sim partner who (is probably reading this) was an absolute atheist and had stickers all over his flight bag bashing people who believe in GOD yet he could not understand why some would take issue with that. Say what you want but you better expect to be challenged.
If you think that’s true great. I think that is a very extreme view.
