By “they can do,” what does this mean?

 

Looks like more airline aid is coming, which would mean they most likely won’t be able to furlough anyway even without this TA.

 

If this LOA should pass, AA would be allowed to do the flying that otherwise wouldn't be allowed if this LOA failed. That's what I mean

 

Can we all agree that the length of this deal is not temporary? 5 years with a 24mo run down isn't temporary. 5 years with an option for 5 more with a 24mo rundown certainly isn't temporary. Also, anything "relaxing" section 1 language is a concession in scope. This deal opens up the ability for another airline to fly our passengers on routes that we can do ourselves. I'm not okay with that.

Scope is never for sale.

 

They missed the pulse of the pilot group because they never took the pulse of the pilot group.

I imagine that everyone working on this deal for the last 10 months has been under so many non-disclosure agreements that until recently they’ve only talked amongst themselves. If you weren’t in on the secret, then they weren’t about to ask your opinion on it. Take a small subgroup, isolate them from their peers, and repeatedly put them in a room with management and lawyers and you’ll get some form of assimilation with management setting the tone. Throw in the physical isolation due to COVID and it’s no wonder this deal eventually started to look good to them.

If LOA 13 does not pass they’ll need to send out a confidential survey to the membership asking what would make this a YES vote for them. What language in LOA 13 they disagree with. What are their expected take-aways (scope, pay, furlough protection, profit sharing, incentive lines...) and list them from most to least important.

Then tabulate the surveys secretly (from the company) and the MEC can then send the NC back to the table with a better “pulse of the pilot group”

In fact, they should already have these surveys prepared to send out.

 

The YES and NO voters can disagree on how important Scope is over the next ten years. They can have different opinions on the likelihood of furlough in the short term. They can disagree on how much a 2% raise is worth. These are good things to discuss.

What we shouldn’t be discussing is the definition of “Scope Concessions” and “temporary”.

LOA 13 is a Scope sale. We surrender portions of our Scope in exchange for a 2% raise and furlough protections. Form your own opinions about the fairness of the offer, but don’t come to the false conclusion that a fair trade somehow makes this not a concession on Scope.

Temporary? Call it what you will, but 10 years plus wind-down is not temporary. Keep in mind the NEA has no expiration date whatsoever, automatically renewing every 5 years in perpetuity. LOA 13 only gives ALPA potential “exits” at the 5 and 10 year points. This deal goes forever unless ALPA forces a discontinuance at those two points, and the nature of the objection is subject to litigation. Jetblue ALPA versus the combined financial interests of Jetblue Airways and American Airlines? David and Goliath.

The MEC can sell this as “temporary” but that is a blatant lie. If they said we were “temporarily” parking 320s none of us would expect it to be ten years.

What if they said you were being displaced to another base, but it was only “temporary” - meaning you’re going there for the rest of your career, but you could attempt to bid back at the 5 and 10 year marks? Would that meet your definition of temporary?

So let’s not call this temporary. Let’s not pretend this isn’t a Scope sale.

 

With the TLV relief, is the 2% really a raise? Or are we funding our own 2022 2% “raise” with 2021 concessions? I could have sworn I heard Warren refer to it as pilot provided cost savings when he was discussing the LOA on the company town hall that followed the pilot one the other day. I’m just a dumb internet tough guy keyboard warrior though...you should ask your reps how much cost savings the TLV provides the company this year, and how much the 2% will cost the company next year and report back!

 

but you voted yes and sold out our scope....

 

Thanks for your outside perspective. Great comments. It's already being passed around inside the happy blue bubble, so I can assure you it's been noticed. Appreciate it!

 

-So the 2% raise is not really a 2% raise, see Copy post above.

-No furlough clause means nothing since company won't furlough anyways ( take a look at the changes happening with the industry, and just as a bonus you can see recent pocket session of them pretty much saying that) AND possible government funding for furlough protection.

- VIL and EIL benefits the company more than the pilots (WC and the others call it cost savings)

- Flica waiting room is just our NC trying to get as much as they could.

- Growth will still happen regardless of LOA passing or failing, again there's more furlough protection.

So can someone tell me what's our benefit to give relief to scope language?