kinetic

Couldn't agree more with Meworry as far as posting is concerned. If you want act like your on Flightinfo.com fine. I'm out of here right behind jetblue320. Maybe if we pretend we are speaking face to face we can have a good discussion. I don't think it was Realistic's idea for us to frag our co-workers for all the world to see. Thank-you.

Lennon

Well if someone is in front of my face blowing gas about how SENIOR they are and accusing me of looking down my nose at JBLU pilots before I came here...what I typed is exactly what I'd say.

I read here because I value my job and I want it to be better than it is now. 320 is just a part of the "I got here first, sucks for you" contingent. What sort of meaningful dialogue is that?

jblumindtrick

"The big question is: does anybody know who does the staffing at jetBlue and do they have any interaction at all with our committee pilots?"

So, back to Realistic's initial post on this thread. Does anyone know the answer to the above question?

jetblue320

Alright already, maybe you think that we don't care about the masses and I will say that is not true. I do care that a junior pilot gets 72 hours in 16-18 days and a senior one gets 87+ in 12-13 days but the truth of the matter is all in perception and point of view. My big beef with the few here that are complaining about this injustice is that they only just beef, and not do anything else about it other than whine.

The mechanisms are in place for them to get involved and make changes if they feel it is unfair and imbalanced. Join a committee, form a new one, get involved! The survey will be out soon and although some feel that is merely barking at the moon, it is one of those mechanisms. We all feel we have the "right" to fair pay and schedules and that is fine, but to rant and rave on a anonymous web site is futile other than making yourself feel good and righteous for the moment. There were a lot of barbs in some of the things were said to me (and my senior peers) and I guess I just got plain defensive. If you perceive that to mean that I am a "got mine, screw you" kinda person, well, I apologize, because the plain truth is it's just not so. I agree that there is dispairity in the methods of our scheduling system, but it is what it is, at least for now. I have the same right to feel and voice my opinion as the next guy, and if it is taken the wrong way, well so be it.

Please do one thing....try seeing things from different perspectives and maybe you will understand that there are two sides to every story.

Once again, if I torqued off my fellow pilots, I apologize. I had hoped that this forum would be a bit different than that "other one". I didn't think I would have to defend and justify my existence at JB, but maybe I was wrong. I have certainly been there before!

C yaaaa

Lennon

Good post 320.

My apologies as well.

FNG320

320,
I think you are right on with a lot of what you say. I just disagree with some of it. Hey, we all have opinions and sometimes they are different. I do try to make sure I have the data to back up what I say, and there are some things here I plan to check into.

I am glad to hear you are as concerned for the little guy. Sometimes your post go way opver to the dark side and the "its all about me" and "seniority". That may not be what you mean, but that is what ends up in print. Not that you shouldn't be concerned but at times riding that horse too much makes you a bigger target and hides the fact that you do care about the whole pilot group.

You make the comment that

"My big beef with the few here that are complaining about this injustice is that they only just beef, and not do anything else about it other than whine.

If that were true, the you would be right. But I have tried to work in the system(s) as you have suggested. The annual JB company wide survey, the annual scheduling survey, the SHOW ME THE MONEY program (both of them), letters to chief pilot, crew services, different commmittees, Dave Bushy, etc. Vollenteered for several committees, etc. I've been "ranting and raving" with facts directly to the proper people but nothing is happening. Been doing this for years now, and there has been almost no change and almost no communication. Actually there has been communication, but none of it answers the questions or fixes the problems. How about some updates, gives us the possible solutions, gives us an input, etc. Overall, I've heard nothing of significance. The QSO is a start, but haven't heard a thing since and my sources in the QSO say almost nothing has been done. There are a lot of "empires" here at JetBlue. The problem is, the person(s) that owns each empire (crew services, Operations, and more) don't like or want outside intervention. It tends to be my way or the highway.

As to why do this on a message board? This board allows me and other to ask questions and b1tch about what is going on (or not going on) and maybe get some answers from the bigger pool of knowledge. When we fly each month we typcally only fly with 4-8 different people and maybe run into a few more in the pilot lounge, but that doesn't promote the exchange of information. For pilots based in FLL and LGB, it is even a small pool of pilots and infomation exchange is even less. Why do we do it here? We have no other place to do so. No company message board, no functional suggestion program. No real answers to our questions or complaints. Some guys are fearful of directly addressing the big guys for fear they may lose their job. (not good). The constant "weve got 10,000 applications on line from people who want to work here" from all of management is a direct threat or at least it means "if you don't like it the way it is, then leave" 320, even you have said this on numerous post on this and other boards. Pocket sessions? I've tried. They tend to be the "warm and fuzzy" pep talk meeting and lets hold hands, sing kume by ya, and lets work harder. Not that it isn't needed, but the hard questions are rarely answered. Even the pilot only type sessions, when the questions get hard it is either "we will look into it" with no reply ever given or "Sorry thats the way it is". What about the committees (values, scheduling, etc). Most of the information we seem to get from them is very vague, edited or non-existant. Wasn't it seveal months ago that the Values committee met with the big guys? About what? About who? What were managements response and what are the results. IF it is a personal issue for a specific pilot, that should stay private, but some issus address, even personal ones (edited for privacy) may help all of us avoid the same trap/mistake. I would like to get some minutes of this meeting and know what was discussed and what were the answers. The same for all of the committees. If they are our reps, then we deserve to hear what they know, all of it.

Ok, ok, ok, I think I have rambled on enought for this day. 320, I agree with a lot of what you say and we are similar in opinion on more than you think, but I am on the other side of some of the issues. I guess we can agree to disagree. I know when someone can give me the facts, I can change my opinion, but I need the facts. I hope you can do the same.

Just my opinion....

FNG

Realistic

All,
I do hope we can keep things professional, factual, and fraternal. And I would be dissapointed to see things degenerate into a jetBlue bashing session, or worse, a pilot bashing forum.
This pilot group could use some unity.
I hope that the pilots who are happy with their situation will be patient and tolerant with those of us who feel that things are a little off kilter.
Nothing can be wittled down to a sound bite.
Pay Inequality - Shrinking Benefits - Scheduling Shenanigans - FAR Loopholes - Staffing Illusions - Committee Fiefdoms - Vapor Stock - Etc.
These are all complicated subjects with arguments that can be made from many different angles.
None of these things makes JetBlue a bad airline. We're growing fast and people are doing what people do.
We have a right to be vigilant and to speak up when we see something we don't like. But we should do it in a respectful manner or we will never be taken seriously.
Why did I push for this board?
Because having these issues discussed by WE THE PILOTS in a public forum is a very powerful motivator. It SHOULD be anonymous and it SHOULD be public.
Private hasn't worked.
I too have written the scheduling committee, Bushy, the White Papers, Al, and my Chief Pilot. I have never gotten an answer that made sense. In some cases I've gotten no reply what-so-ever. And, in many cases I was given a "go away and fly your airplane" smoke screen. A few answers were just downright incompetent.
I've spoken up at pocket sessions. Lately, anything confrontrational just gets the boys from Kew wound up. The last discussion I listened to with D.N. he stated, "the pay is what it is. If you guys decide to do something collectively then I guess that's you're perogative."
The committees and the people in management have their hands on the reigns of my career and thus my family's well-being.
This board is MY chosen vehicle for keeping a spotlight on their decisions.
Fly Safe,
Realistic

jetblue320

Fair enough. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

Take care ad have a great weeknd. Hope your not spending it on duty!

Meworry?

Yes. The Crewmember Manpower Planning Team includes Chief Pilots, Crew Services, Finance (Darien), and the Scheduling Committee. Might be a few other cats and dogs. John Couluris, soon to be head of Crew Services and a JFK based FO, has developed some of his own manpower planning tools to feed into the CMPT. They meet monthly. Sounds like another tough summer, with things beginning to improve in September (yep, that sounds familiar, but I'm optimistic. I think John will work out well).

FNG320

I've got my fingers crossed on this one. But so far this year the manning has not be good. Too many CAPT reserves, not enough FO reserves, now there are not enought reserves for both seats! Just check out the reservse available during the weekends and it is even worse. Not to menion anyone who is sick and IROPs. I know the three Ds said that last summers lack of reserves would never happen again, but with what has happend so far (MAR,APR,MAY) I have no security that it will work this summer.

I can only see a few ways to fix this problems.

1. Increase the hours per pilot to 90+ hours. (85min, 90tgt, 95max) Easy to do, they just need to set the parameters in Classbid and it is done.

2. Increase the productivity of the lines so guys still keep quality. The scheduling committee needs to take out some of the imputs/locks/limits in the optimizer that limit the productivity and get the most productive pairings they can, even if it cost the company some $$$ in hotel bills, deadheads, etc. If not, the number of sick pilots will increase as the PTO goes down like it has every summer so far.(maybe not right, but a fact of life so far at JB)

3. Increase the total number of reserves. Not easy to do, and it should have been done 6 months ago. Since the manning plan has been so messed up so far this year and the number of reserves often below the minimum, especially on the weekends and holidays. I have no confidence it will be fixed this summer.

I am also concerned when I see the Darien (finance) guys involved in operational decisions. I know saving money is the way we operate, but being frugal sometimes takes down the wrong path or a path that doesn't fix the problem or makes worse in an effort to save money.


Maybe with John Couluris running the show (does this mean he is replacing Rich Galloway?) and the pilots point of view, things will be different. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Good luck to all of us...

Just my opinion

FNG